Vail: Epic Pass Sales and Strategy

[ChrisC]

Here are some interesting tidbits from Vail's 24Q1 Conference Call.

• Epic Pass Sales are up, and revenues are even higher since they are pricier.
• The total number of pass sales increased by 4%, and due to the company’s decision to raise its pre-sale pass prices, total sales revenue increased by 11%.

But more interesting:

New markets​

Much of the talk at Thursday’s earnings call revolved around Vail Resorts’ creation of a new pass-selling market in Europe.​

​

On Nov. 30, the company announced it had agreed to acquire its 42nd ski area, Crans-Montana Mountain Resort in Switzerland. Vail Resorts had also purchased a 55-percent ownership stake in the resort operations of Andermatt-Sedrun in Switzerland 16 months earlier, in August 2022.​

​

Lynch said when it comes to the acquisition of more European resorts, she hopes the company’s pace will become even more rapid, although it’s hard to predict what will become available when.​

​

“It’s so driven by the market dynamics and the owners of these assets and where they are and what they’re interested in doing, but we certainly hope to see here that we will continue to make progress on Europe,” Lynch told analyst Patrick Scholes. “We have been focused on Europe as this market is a big opportunity for growth for a long time, so we’re very encouraged to have Andermat-Sedrun and Crans-Montana here over the last couple of years, and the market there is almost three times the size of the number of skier visits as North America, so we hope to continue to make progress with the aspirations to build a network there, but no idea how fast that pace is going to be.”​

Epic Pass sales continue to climb for Vail Resorts

Vail Resorts is reporting double-digit growth in pass sales dollars over last year following the company’s seasonal cessation of its Epic, Epic Local and Epic Day pass products on Sunday. The sales numbers were released...

www.vaildaily.com

 

[jimk]

Slightly off topic, I wonder what the ratio is of North American skiers that vacation in the Alps vs. European skiers that vacation at North American ski resorts? I would guess more of us visit them, than they visit us??

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I wonder what the ratio is of North American skiers that vacation in the Alps vs. European skiers that vacation at North American ski resorts? I would guess more of us visit them, than they visit us??

Maybe our King of Statistics knows how to dig up those figures -- I'd like to know. I suspect that you're correct and by a wide margin. If you want to know what German-speakers think of their visits to this side of the Atlantic, here are North America reports on Alpinforum ready to be run through Google Translate (the comments are for the most part positive but it's interesting to see the differences that they note). If you scroll down, you can see a few that I posted in 2015 and 2016.

 

[ChrisC]

It would be interesting, but it depends on the resorts. You will find a lot of UK visitors at Whistler, Banff, Heavenly, Breckenridge, Aspen, etc - the ones some package tours promote. My UK friends were getting a bit tired of suboptimal conditions in the Alps - rain, queues, etc. - and perceived NA as a more consistent experience -snow, lessons, etc. Seen lots of Germans in Canada doing Powder Highway and heli/cat.

My experience of seeing American skiers in Europe - lots in Zermatt, Chamonix - the big name brands. Alternatively, I never heard an American accent at St. Anton/Lech, Val d'Isere, Courmayeur, St. Moritz, Verbier, etc. The Americans are around, obviously - I just did not see/hear as many. Generally, I would reach out if I did hear someone speaking 'American'.

Funnily, in Japan in 2020, I could not stop running into American skiers in Tokyo and other places on Hokkaido. The US skier dirtbag/powder look stands out (taller, NA ski brands, sloppier dress than Asians) - and they all had Epic or Ikon passes and were ready to ski - seeking JaPOW.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Per the 2022 Vanat report, only 6% of U.S. skier visits are from foreigners. Per the 2017 Kottke demographic report, 4.3% of U.S. skier visits were from foreigners. Both figures presumably include Canadians and Latin Americans. The Canadian heli operations definitely attract some Euros; Snowcat lodges not so much.

As for Americans in the Alps, the raw numbers might be enough for us to notice them occasionally, but as a percent of the huge volume, we're surely a drop in the bucket.

Per Vanat, top 10 cross border ski markets, no actual numbers provided:
1) Germany to Austria
2) Germany to Italy
3) UK to France
4) Netherlands to Austria
5) Germany to Switzerland
6) UK to Austria
7) Netherlands to France
8) Belgium to France
9) Switzerland to Austria
10) U.S. to Canada

Vanat quote:

There are only 2 major markets worldwide where international customers represent more than half of skier visits. In Andorra and Austria, foreign customers rep-resent respectively 94% and 66% of all skier visits.

The markets in Chile, New Zealand, Switzerland and Italy are 58%, 64%, 65% and 65% domestic skiers. France is 73%% domestic, Canada 88% and Japan 90%.

 

[Sbooker]

The US skier dirtbag/powder look stands out (taller, NA ski brands, sloppier dress than Asians) - and they all had Epic or Ikon passes and were ready to ski - seeking JaPOW.

Only the accent would differentiate them from Australians.

 

[jimk]

Good input. I guess one of the thoughts behind my question is that maybe VR is hoping to sell epic passes to euros to ski at their Alpine resorts, but also lure them to make vacations to VRs North American resorts??

 

[Tony Crocker]

maybe VR is hoping to sell epic passes to euros to ski at their Alpine resorts, but also lure them to make vacations to VRs North American resorts??

Highly unlikely to succeed IMHO. In terms of volume, I'd bet that only the British have any obvious presence over here. That would be due to the language and that it takes a bit more work for them to get to the Alps than the continental Euros. And Vail's pricing and vertical integration models will never fly in Europe.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Harv's forum continues to work over Vail Resorts, including their Q4 results.

 

[MarzNC]

Harv's forum continues to work over Vail Resorts, including their Q4 results.

Perhaps more relevant to check out the discussion by the Aussies, which has a thread started in 2020. By January 2024, was on Page 19.

There are usually a few Aussies asking for advice for N. American ski trips based solely on skiing Epic resorts. Some get the Australian Epic and others get a N.A. Epic because they don't ski that much in Australia. The fact that Epic includes a few resorts in Japan and Europe is of interest at times. Although the advice from knowledgeable international travelers is usually to not get sucked in by not having to pay for lift tickets. Meaning overall a ski trip to Japan and Europe can cost less when looking around for alternatives and paying the relatively low lift ticket prices.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Perhaps more relevant to check out the discussion by the Aussies, which has a thread started in 2020. By January 2024, was on Page 19.

From that Aussie thread, Vail did not invent the far in advance cheap season pass. Bogus Basin, which is a community nonprofit, did this in 1998.

In March 1998, Bogus' general manager Mike Shirley reduced the cost of an adult season pass from $500 to $199, lowering the break-even point to just seven visits (and kids' season passes fell to just $29). Bogus Basin sold nearly nine times as many passes for the 1998–99 season versus the previous year, halting the pass sales at 25,000 (2,854 for the 1997–98 season).

The new pricing strategy generated almost four times as much revenue (nearly $3.6 million) from season pass sales, all before June, six months before the season would begin. Total skier visits went from under 192,000 to over 303,000 (up 58%). Although the sales of day tickets ($31 each) expectedly fell (almost 50%), Bogus' total revenue increased by $2.6 million (up 55%) to $7.3 million for the 1998-99 ski season.

Shirley's deep-discount strategy was effective: resorts from coast to coast lowered their prices for multi-day, multi-area, and season passes. Locally, ski equipment sales increased significantly as skiers upgraded their gear. The $199 price was in effect for fifteen years, until raised to $229 for the 2013–14 season.

When this subject was last discussed, EMSC chimed in that Winter Park followed suit for the same 1998-99 season. Mammoth's MVP started in 2000-01, and was good starting April 1 of the prior season. After buying mine in April 2005, I had paid for it long before the 2005-06 season started.

Vail's multiarea Epic Pass started for the 2008-09 season.

 

[Sbooker]

I bought my first Vail product recently. A one day pass to use this January at Park City. I’ll be in the area and have never skied there so….
Not cheap at $110USD but my lad’s footy break up next weekend is at a Go Kart joint and 2 x 20 minute sessions of fun there will cost similar.

Edit. I’ll buy a full Epic pass one of these years. That’s the only way I’ll get to check out Heavenly, Kirkwood, Vail, Beaver Creek and Breckenridge I guess.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I'd bet that only the British have any obvious presence over here.

From this year's Vanat Report regarding where the Brits ski:

France is still the most popular country among British skiers, accounting for more than one third of travelers. Austria is ranked second, capturing about 25% of the British skiers’ market. Next is Italy (about 14%), then Andorra (about 6%), which is on a par with Switzerland (also about 6%), North America (less than 5%) and Bulgaria (about 4%).

 

[MarzNC]

Slight change in strategy for 2025-26. Buddy Passes are history. The replacement is called Epic Friend Tickets, which are good for a 50% discount regardless of location or date, no blackout dates. Can apply the cost of one Friend Ticket to a 2026-27 Epic pass.

Storm Skiing has a chart that shows the Friend Ticket prices will be slightly higher compared to last season's Buddy Passes. Obviously a lot easier to understand so perhaps will be used more often.

 

[Tony Crocker]

The new friend tickets are cheaper than last year's buddy tickets at most Vail ski areas per the Storm Skiing chart I show here (which I get as a subscriber).

On the same day as that post, Storm Skiing also posted a podcast interview with Rob Katz. You do not need to be a subscriber to listen to that. I have not done so yet, but likely will the next time I take a drive long enough.

 

[MarzNC]

Slight change in strategy for 2025-26. Buddy Passes are history. The replacement is called Epic Friend Tickets, which are good for a 50% discount regardless of location or date, no blackout dates. Can apply the cost of one Friend Ticket to a 2026-27 Epic pass.

Storm Skiing has a chart that shows the Friend Ticket prices will be slightly higher compared to last season's Buddy Passes. Obviously a lot easier to understand so perhaps will be used more often.

Oof, confused the Ski With A Friend with the new Epic Friend category.

I only bothered to get an Epic Pass once during a season I planned to spend enough days skiing in Colorado to make it worth it. Don't pay close attention as a result.

 

[tseeb]

Not sure if chart posted by @Tony Crocker makes my decision easier or harder. My wife did not break even on her Tahoe Value Pass last year. I would have come out ahead buying her Buddy tickets so I only renewed my Senior version of pass. My pass is also non-holiday and all Saturdays are blacked out at Kirkwood and Northstar.

I was thinking about buying her and our son, who only skied one day at Diamond Peak during a Bachelor Party last season, a one-day Day Pass for $91 that is valid non-holiday at Heavenly, Kirkwood and Northstar. (If you want CO, UT and Whistler, it's $122 for one day and if you want holidays, it's $15 more. To get these prices you have to buy by Sept. 1.)

Using chart above a day that does not have to be bought in advance at Heavenly is $141.50, Kirkwood $101.50 and Northstar $147. Seems like if Lucia skis a day a Heavenly or Northstar, it would be worth buying in advance, but it's tough to predict the future. Otherwise our Base Ikons give us non-holiday 5 days at Sierra-Tahoe (30 min over Echo Summit from family cabin) and unlimited non-holiday days at Palisades (solid hour from cabin at best).

 

[jimk]

Rob Katz is still a surprisingly young man. I guess he was only thirty-something the first time he got the top job at Vail???

 

[berkshireskier]

Rob Katz is still a surprisingly young man. I guess he was only thirty-something the first time he got the top job at Vail???

Yea, when I first saw him interviewed as the Vail CEO several years ago, I thought he was still in high school. Very young looking for his age. Not sure how old he is now and whether he has "aged".

 

[MarzNC]

Apparently Rob Katz was 58 in May 2025 when the announcement was made that he would become CEO again. The first time he was supposed to be looking for a new CEO when others decided he should just do the job himself. He worked for the finance company that was trying to figure out how to make VR profitable in the long run.