Val Thorens, France, April 1-2, 2022

[Tony Crocker]

Val Thorens reported a modest 6cm new snow Friday. But when we went up the Peclet gondola to 9,800 feet, it was more like 6-8 inches. Despite flat light and some fog Xavier led us off piste. Using the guide in his red uniform and his tracks as reference, we probably skied the fresh powder for over half the vertical of Peclet.

Back on piste lower down Mike collided with Philip, who tore a calf muscle and had to quit. He said he could make it back to Club Med though, so the rest of us continued to the Cime Caron tram. We got lucky with a sunny break, so Xavier led us on one of the long off piste routes of over 4,000 vertical.

We had several nice pitches of powder like Mike is skiing here.

There’s a long traverse out, and it was slow because the light closed in again and Xavier had to break trail very deliberately.

Eventually we ended up by a frozen lake and this refuge.

From here we skied a short trail down to Val Thorens’ lowest lift Plan de l’Eau, just above Les Menuires.

It was snowing harder but Xavier led us up the Cime Caron tram again. This time our luck ran out, as for the first time the snow and fog was accompanied by wind. This made off piste skiing out of the question so we had to ski the Cime piste, using Xavier’s uniform and track as reference as we had off piste.

We got back to Club Med about 1:45PM after skiing 16,600 vertical, about 5K of powder. This concluded the Club Med guiding, and I thought Xavier maximized ski quality over the five days.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Three days of poor vis at a place like 3V is a tough break, although that one big-vert run in the pic above when the sun came out looked nice.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Today will make that 4 days. The past 3 days were still worthwhile largely due to being guided. We made the rounds to Courchevel when self navigating would have been tough in bad vis.

Skiing off piste powder in this weather if you go first requires some impressive skills in both skiing and navigation. So today rates not to be very adventurous.

OTOH if you are paying for a guide by the day you are probably wanting to do that mainly when both weather and conditions are good as at Val d’Isere 4 years ago.

James, have you had the experience like Friday of skiing long routes by following a guide’s uniform and tracks? I put myself in second position and usually made 8’s with Xavier’s tracks in the powder for a good rhythm of turns.

Tuesday which I have not posted yet was overall best of the week. Due to the incoming weather I took a lot of pics and it will take time to go through them. It was more efficient to post Wed-Fri without staying up too late last night.

Late afternoon the last two days were also consumed by the month end update of bestsnow.net/seas22.htm. It’s not as if I’m missing better skiing at home by being in Europe. And of course the skiing in the Alps should be quite good when weather clears Mon-Wed. We will not ski the 3 days of a predicted bigger storm a week from now but I’d expect the week starting April 10 to be very good after that.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Today will make that 4 days. The past 3 days were still worthwhile largely due to being guided.

The only Alps visit where I had a similar number of bad-visibility days was for the Val d'Anniviers in 2017 (here are the TR links, as Tony may be going there soon). That's the gamble of an all-inclusive stay -- you're more or less taking the option of redirecting to an alternate ski area with trees or potentially better sightlines (if there is one nearby) off the table. Still, having an all-day guide is a nice consolation prize.

 

[ChrisC]

Looks like your guide attempted almost all the classic 3 Vallees off-piste descents. Gosh, you had some tough conditions at times.

Cime de Caron to Lac du Lou is definitely one of the most famous and also anything off Pointe de La Masse.

Sunnier day pics from another TR

Lac du Lou

A guide to the off piste itinerary routes to the Lac du Lou in Val Thorens, with directions and photos

valthorensguide.co.uk

 

[Tony Crocker]

Tree skiing isn't happening on this trip as anything other than manmade pistes has completely melted out below 2,000m, maybe 1,800m if north facing with some pitch. We will find non-ski activities during the forecast storm April 7-9. The upside is that the skiing the remainder of the next two weeks will be much better than it was looking like when we arrived in Europe March 21.

I am reminded that both the the average and monthly incidence of snowfall is very similar in the Alps to Colorado. There is not even a little bit of midwinter concentration of snowfall like we see in Canada, along the West Coast or more conspicuously in Japan. The low altitude places in the Alps may see more rain in shoulder season but above 7,000 feet or so November and April snowfall is similar to the winter months. At 10,000 foot Sonnblick Observatory October and May also have similar snowfall to the winter months and only in July/August is the majority of precipitation rain.

The difference between Colorado and the Alps is that Colorado gets consistent small snowfalls while the Alps are more prone to big dumps and longer dry spells.

 

[Tony Crocker]

But Cime de Caron to Lac du Lou is definitely one of the most famous and also anything off Pointe de La Masse.

Pointe de La Masse is so wide open that I don't think a guide is needed, as long as the avy rating is low. Unfortunately the lower part of that sector is quite low tide this spring.

There was a LOT of traversing to get to Lac du Lou, though Xavier said it's usually much faster than what we experienced due to the bad vis and Xavier breaking trail.

Seeing ChrisC's itineraries somewhat paralleling mine (the Alps, interior BC,the interior NW pandemic trip), I am curious about his FTO leading ski area count, which was at 160 when mine was 120 back in 2006. Mine is 257 as of this week and there will be a few more additions over the next two weeks.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Saturday was as expected the reality check of skiing above tree line in the Alps in bad weather without a guide. Liz and I took a test run down Moutiere where she considered visibility unacceptable and bailed. She went out for another run about 3PM up to Folie Douce, then back to Club Med. I thought the Moutiere run was OK, as I could make powder turns just outside the stick markers most of the time.

I moved on to the Moraine and Portette areas, which I had not skied the prior 5 days. The Genepi blue run also offered good powder outside the sticks during the 1/3 of it that had enough pitch. I thought the longer red run Aster from the Thorens Funitel might be promising. Unfortunately this is when the fog became more intense. In this scenario all you can do is keep a couple of sticks in sight and stay between them on the piste. Fortunately another 10 inches of new snow had well buried March's hardpack/spring snow as temps were around 15F.

I left the Moraine/Portette sector, skiing the Fond run down to the Grand Fond gondola. Fond was as soupy as Portette, so I decided taking that gondola up to 10,000 feet was not a good idea. I continued lower to Boismint, another chair I had not skied before. The Haute Combe run there was in the fog for its upper three quarters.

I rode Moutiere again to head back to Val Thorens. I had never observed carefully the maze of lifts around the resort as I was always trying to keep Xavier in sight. So I boarded the Lac Blanc chair instead of Pionniers which would take me back to Club Med. Lac Blanc ascends looker's left of the drainage served by the Peclet gondola and stops about 800 feet lower. Fortunately the fog eased off some so could ski a short off piste sector in the same general area of our first run Friday.

After using Plein Sud to get back to Club Med I finished the day with 17,700 vertical and about 3K of powder. Today rivaled my first time in Andermatt in 2013 as my most intense bad vis experience in the Alps.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I am reminded that both the the average and monthly incidence of snowfall is very similar in the Alps to Colorado. (...) The difference between Colorado and the Alps is that Colorado gets consistent small snowfalls while the Alps are more prone to big dumps and longer dry spells.

With their 400+ averages, I'm curious if or how Warth-Schröcken and Damüls differ from ^^ that.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Standard deviations as percent of average are 26% at Warth and 27% at Damüls vs. overall region average of 31% for the Alps.

In context those percents are 21% in I-70 Colorado, 25% in Utah and the southern and western Colorado areas. California is 39%.

The areas I have under 20% are Targhee, Beaver Creek, Berthoud Pass, Winter Park, Revelstoke/Rogers Pass and the Okanagan areas.

 

[Sbooker]

Tree skiing isn't happening on this trip as anything other than manmade pistes has completely melted out below 2,000m, maybe 1,800m if north facing with some pitch. We will find non-ski activities during the forecast storm April 7-9. The upside is that the skiing the remainder of the next two weeks will be much better than it was looking like when we arrived in Europe March 21.

I am reminded that both the the average and monthly incidence of snowfall is very similar in the Alps to Colorado. There is not even a little bit of midwinter concentration of snowfall like we see in Canada, along the West Coast or more conspicuously in Japan. The low altitude places in the Alps may see more rain in shoulder season but above 7,000 feet or so November and April snowfall is similar to the winter months. At 10,000 foot Sonnblick Observatory October and May also have similar snowfall to the winter months and only in July/August is the majority of precipitation rain.

The difference between Colorado and the Alps is that Colorado gets consistent small snowfalls while the Alps are more prone to big dumps and longer dry spells.

Very interesting info. I’m wondering why there are no major glaciers in Colorado like there is in Europe. A latitude thing?

 

[Tony Crocker]

Some of it is latitude. But mainly the summers are much warmer due to the more continental climate in the Rockies.

Montana is the same latitude as the Alps and the tree line is still around 2,500 meters in continental climate areas like Discovery and Big Sky vs. 2,000 meters in the Alps.

Washington State is also that latitude and its tree line is around 2,000. But there you have also a high water content coastal snowpack that persists farther into spring/summer than either Montana or the Alps at comparable altitudes. And note that Mt. Rainier right next to Crystal has more than half of the glacial ice in the lower 48 and most of the rest is on other Cascade volcanic peaks.

Latitude bumps continental climate tree line up to 3,300 in Colorado and 3,500 in New Mexico.

The Colorado Rockies get a fair amount of summer rain but it’s mostly afternoon thunderstorms and the moisture is often coming from Mexico so unlike the high Alps summer snow is rare.

Here’s what I don’t understand about glacier skiing in the Alps. Why is there more of it and at lower elevation in Austria than in France or Switzerland? The Austrian Alps are not as high and the climate should have less ocean influence. But perhaps the pervasive influence of the Gulf Stream upon Western Europe makes summers warmer in the French Alps than in Austria? Fraser?

 

[Weathertoski]

Some of it is latitude. But mainly the summers are much warmer due to the more continental climate in the Rockies.

Montana is the same latitude as the Alps and the tree line is still around 2,500 meters in continental climate areas like Discovery and Big Sky vs. 2,000 meters in the Alps.

Washington State is also that latitude and its tree line is around 2,000. But there you have also a high water content coastal snowpack that persists farther into spring/summer than either Montana or the Alps at comparable altitudes. And note that Mt. Rainier right next to Crystal has more than half of the glacial ice in the lower 48 and most of the rest is on other Cascade volcanic peaks.

Latitude bumps continental climate tree line up to 3,300 in Colorado and 3,500 in New Mexico.

The Colorado Rockies get a fair amount of summer rain but it’s mostly afternoon thunderstorms and the moisture is often coming from Mexico so unlike the high Alps summer snow is rare.

Here’s what I don’t understand about glacier skiing in the Alps. Why is there more of it and at lower elevation in Austria than in France or Switzerland? The Austrian Alps are not as high and the climate should have less ocean influence. But perhaps the pervasive influence of the Gulf Stream upon Western Europe makes summers warmer in the French Alps than in Austria? Fraser?

I think it's because the French Alps are more prone to summer heatwaves than the Austrian Alps. It's a bit counterintuitive, as you would think that Austria has the more continental climate, and indeed at most levels it does. But anecdotally I have noticed that the French Alps suffer from more frequent and more brutal heatwaves (due to plumes of hot air moving north-east out of the Sahara). Look at the average daily highs in Grenoble compared with Innsbruck. I know the former is slightly lower but the average summer temps are considerably higher.

I have also noticed that when you get the first snowfalls in Autumn, they are more likely in the eastern Alps as the "Azores High" is often still dominant further west. Whatever the case, the only 3 glaciers that continue to offer proper summer skiing in the French Alps (Les 2 Alpes, Tignes and Val d'Isere) have really been struggling in recent years, often closing early. 25 Years ago Tignes was open 365 days a year, now you are lucky if it's not threadbare by late July. La Plagne, Val Thorens and Alpe d'Huez are other french resorts that have been forced to give up their summer ski operations in the last 20 years or so.

 

[ChrisC]

Pointe de La Masse is so wide open that I don't think a guide is needed, as long as the avy rating is low. Unfortunately the lower part of that sector is quite low tide this spring.

I found the off-piste in the 3 Vallees could be decently accessible with a guidebook and decent stability. Most is advanced intermediate/maybe low expert. In January 2006, we primarily skied off-piste in Les Menuires and Courchevel Zones: Pointe de La Masse, Roc de Fer/St. Martin Express to St. Martin or Meribel Gondola, Saulire couloirs, Chanrossa and Creux Noir. Other areas were still a bit rocky.

 

[ChrisC]

Seeing ChrisC's itineraries somewhat paralleling mine (the Alps, interior BC,the interior NW pandemic trip), I am curious about his FTO leading ski area count, which was at 160 when mine was 120 back in 2006. Mine is 257 as of this week and there will be a few more additions over the next two weeks.

I would have to sit down and review. It's not something I actively track. But a lot of my list includes East Coast behemoths like Sterling Forest, Mt. Peter, Big Birch, Blue Hills, Mohawk Mt., Massanutten, Elk Mt., Scotch Valley/Deer Run, etc. Never have skied the Midwest, but yes to East Coast NC/TN to Maine.

I am more driven by places that look interesting and/or unique.

 

[ChrisC]

Saturday was as expected the reality check of skiing above tree line in the Alps in bad weather without a guide. Liz and I took a test run down Moutiere where she considered visibility unacceptable and bailed. She went out for another run about 3PM up to Folie Douce, then back to Club Med.

Liz's day does not sound like a bad idea on a foggy snowy day in the Alps.

 

[EMSC]

Mine is 257 as of this week

I'm a pipsqueak by comparison. I'm only at 112 with 2 new this season (PowMow and Eagle Point, both in UT).

The Colorado Rockies get a fair amount of summer rain but it’s mostly afternoon thunderstorms and the moisture is often coming from Mexico so unlike the high Alps summer snow is rare.

Correct, much of the afternoon storms come from simple heating of the atmosphere during the 3-4 weeks that the 'monsoon' is in effect. Basically just reasonably moist air that streams to the NE from roughly Baja California area of Mexico and causing storms in Arizona, NM, and Colo mostly.

There are occasional storm fronts with chillier air and I have personally seen it snow in the Colo Mtns in every month except July, which can also occur, but very rarely.

The areas I have under 20% are Targhee, Beaver Creek, Berthoud Pass, Winter Park, Revelstoke/Rogers Pass and the Okanagan areas.

As a 'local', I'm surprised to see Beaver Creek in that list; and not see Steamboat.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Mine is 257 as of this week and there will be a few more additions over the next two weeks.

I'm a pipsqueak by comparison. I'm only at 112 with 2 new this season (PowMow and Eagle Point, both in UT).

I'm halfway between you two: 186.

 

[Tony Crocker]

James and Liz are neck and neck in ski area count. I think she was at 180 before this trip and has added the same 11 new ones as I have.

 

[Tony Crocker]

As a 'local', I'm surprised to see Beaver Creek in that list; and not see Steamboat.

Beaver Creek has complete season data only since 2006, though there's a SNOTEL (McCoy Park) in the ski area that I could possibly use to fill in some back Aprils.

Steamboat and Beaver Creek have similar worst seasons in the 65-70% range, though Steamboat has more of them with its data going back to 1982. Beaver's big seasons are around 130% while Steamboat has two at 144% (2008 and 2011) within the time frame of the Beaver Creek data.

My gut feeling is that Steamboat is more prone to big dumps than the northern and central Colorado group overall.