You Buyin' This?

Harvey

Administrator
Staff member
Don't mean to create a lot of work....just wondering about your opinion:

The AccuWeather.com long-range center continues to drive home the point that a very warm winter is on the way for much of the nation, especially east of the Rockies - a forecast given to Joe Bastardi Energy Pro™ and private clients at the start of summer. Joe Bastardi, chief long range meteorologist for AccuWeather.com, warned of a reversal in November - that the areas receiving the endless summer in October would be noticeably colder this month relative to normal and probably even below normal in many areas.

http://www.accuweather.com/news-story.a ... &article=8
 
jasoncapecod is correct. I suggest people interested in weather forecasts wade through the references on the recent western post. For the Northeast it's probably just simpler to read Scott's blogs here on FTO.
 
Ok here's the wierd thing....last year when the early season was soo darn warm in the east...I started visiting a site that is all serious weather folks like Scott. In early December, a large number of posters were calling for a dramatic shift to cold in the east in mid January. And it did happen on Jan 14 I think. Some were off by as much as a week, but many were calling for the cold to last a long time, and it did.

It made me think that while you can't say it will rain or snow on a certain day weeks in advance, that there are ways to predict shifts in the Jet, farther in advance.

This Bastardi thing...warm in December and lasting a long time...has been called by a lot of folks on that site. Just thought I'd see if Scott agreed.

Harv
 
Here is the winter forecast form NWS 2001-2002..
one of the warmest winters on record in the NE

REPORTS U.S. TO FACE ANOTHER COOL WINTER

October 18, 2001 — For most of the United States, winter 2001-02 will feel like a sequel to last year's cold season, with sharp swings in temperature and precipitation, including heavy lake-effect snows in the Northeast and Midwest, cold air outbreaks in the South, and the potential for Nor'easters along the East Coast. (Click NOAA image for larger view of winter weather outlook for 2001-2002.)

At a news conference in Washington, D.C., officials from NOAA released the nation's official winter outlook, and said the absence of a strong El Niño or La Niña climate pattern leaves the door open for a highly variable winter, which will impact the winter weather extremes such as cold, snow, rain and ice that the nation may experience.

"We don't expect a repeat of the record-breaking cold temperatures of November-December of last year, but this winter should be cooler than the warm winters of the late 1990s," said Scott Gudes, NOAA's acting administrator. "Citizens should prepare for the full range of winter weather."

Climate factors that influenced last winter will play a similar role this season. They include: the Arctic Oscillation, which influences the number of cold-air outbreaks in the South and Nor'easters on the East Coast, and the Madden-Julian Oscillation, which can impact the number of heavy rain storms in the Pacific Northwest.

"This winter, NOAA's improving technologies will help National Weather Service forecasters—for the first time—pinpoint when these factors will kick in and bring extreme weather," said retired General Jack Kelly, director of NOAA's National Weather Service. Kelly noted that the nation is likely to experience large temperature and precipitation swings during the winter.

Regional Outlooks

In the Northeast, colder-than-normal temperatures are expected. Snowfall for the entire region will depend on the fluctuations of the Arctic Oscillation.

The Mid-Atlantic States have equal chances of above normal, normal, or below-normal temperatures and precipitation. Storm tracks could bring more snow than the winters of the late 1990s, but this largely depends on the Arctic Oscillation.

The Southeast should be drier than normal. Temperatures have an equal chance of averaging above normal, normal or below normal.

In the upper Midwest and Great Lakes, temperatures should be lower than normal, with more sub-zero days than the average of recent winters. There are equal chances for cumulative precipitation to be above normal, normal, or below normal.

The northern Great Plains and Rockies should see below-normal temperatures with more sub-zero days than experienced on average during the winters of the late 1990s, but wet and mild weather is more likely for the southern Plains. The central Rockies can expect equal chances of above normal, normal, or below-normal precipitation and temperatures.

In the Northwest, there are equal chances for above normal, normal, or below-normal rain and snow. Heavy coastal rain events are more likely compared to the previous three winters. A repeat of the near-record dryness seen last winter is unlikely.

Expect warmer-than-normal temperatures in most of the Southwest (except western California) and equal chances of above normal, normal or below-normal precipitation.

Southwestern Alaska can expect a wet winter. The rest of Alaska and all of Hawaii can expect equal chance of above normal, normal, or below normal temperatures and precipitation.
The 2001-02 winter outlook will be updated on Nov. 15, 2001 at 3 p.m. EDT. The winter outlook is available online at NOAA's Climate Prediction
 
I agree with Jason here. These long-term weather forecasts (anything more than a week or two out and certainly a season-long forecast) are, at best, educated guesses by the meteorologists. The fact is that weather patterns can be extremely variable and trying to predict what the weather will be for three months in any one location is foolish. I make the same prediction every year for the Northeast: We'll have some cold weather; we'll have some warmer than average temperatures (the "January" thaw). We'll have some snow storms; we'll have some rain storms; we'll have some storms starting as snow storms and then changing over to rain, with a cold front following, so the slush freezes into concrete. My advice is that you have to go with the flow and expect anything and everything. Put snow tires on your car and keep your skis tuned at all times to take advantage of any good ski conditions.
 
Interestingly, I archived the long range predictions for the same season (2001-02), with my summary of actual results in italics:

New York, New England, and Quebec---fast start, above normal snowfall, especially in Catskills, Berkshires, and the cities in the Rte. 95 corridor. Colder than normal, especially in far northern areas.
Actual: much warmer than normal, particularly early. Overall below average in N. Vermont snowbelt, dismal everywhere else in Northeast.

Mid Atlantic and Southeast---Looks like a banner year. Below normal cold to the north will suppress storm track to the south…great for these regions. Should get off the mark fast here, too.
Actual: much warmer than normal, particularly early. A poor season overall, as these regions are snowmaking/temperature dependent.

Great Lakes---Water temps cooler than this time a year ago, so lake effect not likely to be as dramatic early on. Make no mistake, though, lakes will be productive through Christmas. Natural snow slightly above normal overall, with great snowmaking temps plentiful.
Actual: Warmer than normal, particularly early. Did produce some dramatic lake effect, like Buffalo at Christmas.

Northern Rockies, Northwest---weak La Nina early on should help with early season snow…if El Nino comes on late, snows will shift to the south. Temps near normal.
Actual: A strong season. The early season was very good, but so was March.

Central Rockies, central Sierras---looks like a relatively quiet winter, with normal snowfall and temps…pattern not real conducive to numerous big dumps.
Actual: Snowfall was heavily concentrated (both Sierra and Utah) in massive dumps during late November/December, and then again in March. January and February were unusually dry.

Southern Rockies, southern Sierras---a little milder than normal early on, but look for snowfall to pick up dramatically after the first of the year, as weak El Nino takes shape. By end of season, look for above normal snowfall.
Actual: The early season could indeed be defined as “a little milder than normal,” but the second half of the season (February onwards) was a record drought.

El Nino was neutral all winter. It did not turn significantly positive until APR/MAY.

Could they have gotten it more wrong? These long range forecasts are bunk. Ignore them.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb and say the long term forecasts are a lot better than they used to be. A lot of folks are indeed saying that early-mid Winter in the East, after a cold/snowy start in the mtns, will really warm up. I'm buying it, as my anecdotal experience from recent La Ninas is that they're not good for the East. I am already preparing myself for a horrendous January.

I'm also going to stick my neck out there and say that, as usual, North of I-89 will be the place to in the East (i.e. from Sugarbush to the Loaf, from SW to NE), as those placed do a lot better with the snow to rain to snow systems - the storms that cut up into the Great Lakes, whihc leaves most resorts in New Eng on the wrong side of the tracks. Western Canada is looking good, however. Not that I'm going there this year.
 
sszycher":312piklz said:
I'm also going to stick my neck out there and say that, as usual, North of I-89 will be the place to in the East

That's not much of a stretch -- it's pretty much a guarantee any year in New England.
 
The winter will be "warmer than normal, warmer than last winter, and overall a more consumer-friendly winter for those buying fuel and gas," the company's chief long-range forecaster, Joe Bastardi, said in a statement.
Accuweather.com forecasters a month ago predicted that winter temperatures in Southern New England would average 2 to 3.5 degrees above normal. (Last winter, the temperatures averaged 1.7 degrees above normal.) They said this week their confidence in the balmy forecast was growing.
"Everything seems to be running according to what we expected," said Ken Reeves, director of forecasting at the company.
The commercial forecasters have predicted a relative cold spell during November, then a warmup in late December, and warmer than usual temperatures until the middle part of February or even until March.
There is a "sizable chunk of the United States east of the Rockies that's going to have an unbelievably warm January," Reeves said.
The forecasters emphasized that the numbers are averages and that individual cold days and snowstorms could still happen.

OK guys, here's one of those predictions for the East this winter, saved for posterity as in 2001-02. My prediction is that we'll come back to it in March and have a few laughs.
 
The winter will be "warmer than normal, warmer than last winter, and overall a more consumer-friendly winter for those buying fuel and gas," the company's chief long-range forecaster, Joe Bastardi, said in a statement

I wonder if MR Bastardi or any of his friends are in the Energy Trading bussiness.. :roll:
I lump Hurricane forecasters in the pile too...
 
Offhand, I know of no statistical evidence that long-range weather forecasts have any true predictive power. I have often wondered if a naive model, in which future weather conditions are 'predicted' as historical means for a given day, are not just as accurate as the "sophisticated" models these guys promote? A quick glance through Google Scholar doesn't lend much support for these kinds of models ... NCAR says 15 days out is about the limit.

Rick
 
Tony Crocker":3ddxecjc said:
The winter will be "warmer than normal, warmer than last winter, and overall a more consumer-friendly winter for those buying fuel and gas," the company's chief long-range forecaster, Joe Bastardi, said in a statement.
Accuweather.com forecasters a month ago predicted that winter temperatures in Southern New England would average 2 to 3.5 degrees above normal. (Last winter, the temperatures averaged 1.7 degrees above normal.) They said this week their confidence in the balmy forecast was growing.
"Everything seems to be running according to what we expected," said Ken Reeves, director of forecasting at the company.
The commercial forecasters have predicted a relative cold spell during November, then a warmup in late December, and warmer than usual temperatures until the middle part of February or even until March.
There is a "sizable chunk of the United States east of the Rockies that's going to have an unbelievably warm January," Reeves said.
The forecasters emphasized that the numbers are averages and that individual cold days and snowstorms could still happen.

OK guys, here's one of those predictions for the East this winter, saved for posterity as in 2001-02. My prediction is that we'll come back to it in March and have a few laughs.

I think we take out rotisserie and have ourselves a grille event. I would love to feed this back to Mr. Bastardi and ask for him to explain what went wrong. Weather guesstimators have a very short memory, which we need to help ameliorate... :roll:
 
I'm happy to say...looks like you guys called it. The 10 day is cold and that takes us almost to Christmas. Looks like one of the best Decembers in the east in quite a while. Never shoulda trusted the Bastardi.
 
Long range weather forecasts... Snort. I have better luck with a trail map, a pentagram drawn with a magic marker, and candles.
 
Let's not jinx this good thing. We should all just thank the Snow Goddess before she shuts down this productive weather pattern. Thank you Suzy Chapstick!
 
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