MarzNC has it right. The aggregate revenue is distributed in proportion to the aggregate skier days used at each Indy area.
Indy Pass
- Thread starter ChrisC
- Start date
There's been chatter on Harvey's forum about Smuggler's Notch joining Indy. That would make a pretty nice selection up there: Smuggs, Burke, Jay, with Sutton and Owls Head across the border. Even better if they could add Mont Orford but unlikely.
ChrisC
Well-known member
Everything is aggregated. Customers are categorized, and some are discriminated against/added carefully.
About 10-20 core ski areas in the Northeast and Northwest constitute the bulk of the Indy Pass business. Their negotiated payouts from the Indy Pass Pool are likely higher than those of smaller Euro/Japan/other ski areas; it's not equal. Since Indy is responsible for up to 30%+ of their skier days, they need to stop selling the pass for a period of time and calculate and project all skier days at their partner resorts. This is relatively easy with the current user base, and then creating profiles for every new skier based on purchase and expected usage. Then they open enrollment periods, recalculate expected pass usage/estimate attendance, and calculate payouts. Scarcity creates hype, but they need enrollment periods.
Essentially, they need to block high-usage Northeasterners. And likely a few Northwesterners. Likely limit single males and retirees who might use 20-30 days. Essentially, avoid a retired New Englander or a young guy living in Boston. Too much usage. I don't know what demo overestimates their ski days - or just gets dragged along. It's healthcare, but for skiing - don't take the users.
Essentially, you cannot have everyone overwhelm Indy Pass Top-10 Redemptions (a few years old)— from Doug Fish on The Storm Skiing Podcast
- Jay Peak (VT)
- Waterville Valley (NH)
- Cannon Mountain (NH)
- Pats Peak (NH)
- Bolton Valley (VT)
- Saddleback (ME)
- Magic Mountain (VT)
- Berkshire East (MA)
- Powder Mountain (UT)
- Lutsen Mountains (MN).
And who cares who gets added? Just more marketing hype for Indy; their list/network gets bigger. For the ski area, the marginal cost of servicing an Indy Pass skier is almost zero; hopefully they spend extra on food, gear, and lessons. Most of these ski areas are underutilized. And it's marketing to skiers who would never otherwise visit.
I'm sure that is true. Maybe top 10 is all Northeast since Powder Mt. and Lutsen have left Indy.
Do we know this? Higher than those areas' proportion of Indy pass usage? We know that's the way Alterra and Vail handle partners; each one is a separate negotiation. And that is the most closely held corporate secret at Alterra in particular. I was under the impression that Indy Pass prided itself on being more transparent with its proclamation about the 85% of revenue sharing. I would be surprised if the proportioning varied by area and is not as MarzNC described. And FYI these ski areas should be happy with a 50+% yield, because that's rather typical for the ski industry in general per Kottke reports in the 2010s.
And how does limiting new entrants do this? The power users getting 20-30 days are surely renewals at this point. And when they reopen, you're saying that they are secretly blocking retired New Englanders or young guys living in Boston? Retired New Englanders are the core demographic of NASJA these days
, and we get Indy for free.I agree with the rationale for continued growth in number of smaller underutilized areas. I can see why James' enthusiasm. Smallest tier of areas in North America usually means not that interesting. Not so in the Alps, still plenty of room for growth there.
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Agree that the power users are renewing and are unlikely to ever stop using Indy. Reading posts in the Indy Users Facebook group, it's clear there is a small minority who are quite willing to travel all over the PacNW or northern Rockies based on using Indy. While some fly or drive from the northeast, most of those people lives in the west and drive. There have been quite a few people talking about using Indy in Europe and Japan.
The shifting going on for Indy is among the resorts that Ikon is courting. A few popular midwest resorts are now Ikon Bonus Mountains and off Indy. Although midwesterners who like variety and got Indy as an Add-on Pass before may well decide to keep Indy.
I've had an Indy Pass from the start. My home mountain, Massanutten, was an early adopter. Most seasons I get a Massanutten season pass no matter what I'm doing to ski at big mountains. The Add-on price for Indy meant that using it for 4-6 days in the southeast was worth it to me. There are 8 Indy locations in NC, VA, WV, MD. I and a couple intermediate Ski Divas from the east used Indy for a trip to Idaho to check out Tamarack and Brundage. Would never have planned that trip without Indy. Having been there, and skied Bogus Basin as well, I'd be happy to go back for a longer stay.
While the original vision of Indy being a low cost approach for people who ski less than 10 days a season and are only willing to drive for skiing still applies, the direction that Entabeni has taken in recent years is clearly different. For the smaller hills, the fact that Entabeni offers software related to operations could be a factor for deciding to join Indy. I saw Entabeni ticket boxes at Soldier Mountain a few years ago.