Indy Pass

[Tony Crocker]

MarzNC has it right. The aggregate revenue is distributed in proportion to the aggregate skier days used at each Indy area.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

There's been chatter on Harvey's forum about Smuggler's Notch joining Indy. That would make a pretty nice selection up there: Smuggs, Burke, Jay, with Sutton and Owls Head across the border. Even better if they could add Mont Orford but unlikely.

 

[ChrisC]

Indy retains 15% of pass revenue and distributes the other 85% to the ski areas in proportion to skier visit usage. I do not see a financial incentive for either Indy or the participating ski areas to restrict Indy Pass sales. In terms of protecting ski areas' pass revenue from locals, Indy has stated (in Stuart interview last year) that the two day maximum per area will absolutely never be increased.

I should know this by now but to confirm -- individual ski area revenues are based on how many Indy Pass areas are skied by a given subscriber? Thus, if someone skis ten areas, it's $400 minus Indy Pass's end (15%) and then the remaining $340 is divided by ten so each place gets $34 per day for that particular skier at the end of the season? Or is that $34 sliced and diced further based on how much a given day ticket at a specific ski area is?

Everything is aggregated. Customers are categorized, and some are discriminated against/added carefully.

About 10-20 core ski areas in the Northeast and Northwest constitute the bulk of the Indy Pass business. Their negotiated payouts from the Indy Pass Pool are likely higher than those of smaller Euro/Japan/other ski areas; it's not equal. Since Indy is responsible for up to 30%+ of their skier days, they need to stop selling the pass for a period of time and calculate and project all skier days at their partner resorts. This is relatively easy with the current user base, and then creating profiles for every new skier based on purchase and expected usage. Then they open enrollment periods, recalculate expected pass usage/estimate attendance, and calculate payouts. Scarcity creates hype, but they need enrollment periods.

Essentially, they need to block high-usage Northeasterners. And likely a few Northwesterners. Likely limit single males and retirees who might use 20-30 days. Essentially, avoid a retired New Englander or a young guy living in Boston. Too much usage. I don't know what demo overestimates their ski days - or just gets dragged along. It's healthcare, but for skiing - don't take the users.

Essentially, you cannot have everyone overwhelm Indy Pass Top-10 Redemptions (a few years old)— from Doug Fish on The Storm Skiing Podcast

1. Jay Peak (VT)
2. Waterville Valley (NH)
3. Cannon Mountain (NH)
4. Pats Peak (NH)
5. Bolton Valley (VT)
6. Saddleback (ME)
7. Magic Mountain (VT)
8. Berkshire East (MA)
9. Powder Mountain (UT)
10. Lutsen Mountains (MN).

And who cares who gets added? Just more marketing hype for Indy; their list/network gets bigger. For the ski area, the marginal cost of servicing an Indy Pass skier is almost zero; hopefully they spend extra on food, gear, and lessons. Most of these ski areas are underutilized. And it's marketing to skiers who would never otherwise visit.

 

[Tony Crocker]

About 10-20 core ski areas in the Northeast and Northwest constitute the bulk of the Indy Pass business.

I'm sure that is true. Maybe top 10 is all Northeast since Powder Mt. and Lutsen have left Indy.

Their negotiated payouts from the Indy Pass Pool are likely higher than those of smaller Euro/Japan/other ski areas; it's not equal.

Do we know this? Higher than those areas' proportion of Indy pass usage? We know that's the way Alterra and Vail handle partners; each one is a separate negotiation. And that is the most closely held corporate secret at Alterra in particular. I was under the impression that Indy Pass prided itself on being more transparent with its proclamation about the 85% of revenue sharing. I would be surprised if the proportioning varied by area and is not as MarzNC described. And FYI these ski areas should be happy with a 50+% yield, because that's rather typical for the ski industry in general per Kottke reports in the 2010s.

you cannot have everyone overwhelm Indy Pass Top-10 Redemptions (a few years old)

And how does limiting new entrants do this? The power users getting 20-30 days are surely renewals at this point. And when they reopen, you're saying that they are secretly blocking retired New Englanders or young guys living in Boston? Retired New Englanders are the core demographic of NASJA these days , and we get Indy for free.

I agree with the rationale for continued growth in number of smaller underutilized areas. I can see why James' enthusiasm. Smallest tier of areas in North America usually means not that interesting. Not so in the Alps, still plenty of room for growth there.