Which North American Skiers Should Ski in Europe?

It is relatively easy to join a guided group in most places. Most of the ones I've been in are 4-5 people and big operations like Piste to Powder in St. Anton will have multiple groups at varied ability/pace. Switzerland is the exception. Guided groups are often only one day per week if at all. Private guiding anywhere is expensive. ChrisC has more experience with guided skiing in the Alps and can probably provide more specifics.
 
Sbooker said:
The idea was to go to North America in the spring so I was hoping for something different.
Japan was planned for January but now Kylie will have to work our school holidays to cover for other people that won’t be working. February is not ideal for Japan because the crowds around Chinese new year are apparently crazy and are tipped to be even worse next year as the Chinese border is open now after a long time closed.
But it may have to be Canada I guess.
Click to expand...
Yes I would certainly choose Canada for February. My cat ski trips since 2013 have all been in late February. Canada has a "Family Day" weekend that's about the same time as US President weekend but doesn't affect midweek all that much. In Japan you want to stick to the January/first week of February for maximum powder.
 
Skieric said:
My understanding is that at most resorts in Europe ungroomed is generally equivalent to out of bounds.
Click to expand...
Strictly speaking, yes, but it's not that simple in practice. Tony, a potential off-season mini-project might be to combine and/or sticky as Harv does here a couple of the sprawling Alps query threads like this one (currently buried on page 5) so people don't have to go searching for helpful info/best practices that we've covered in the past.

Good grief, looking back at the First Time Europe thread was an unpleasant reminder of the huge PITA we had to go through to negotiate the pandemic travel bureaucracy. Hopefully never again.
 
Last edited:
Sbooker said:
Japan was planned for January but now Kylie will have to work our school holidays to cover for other people that won’t be working. February is not ideal for Japan because the crowds around Chinese new year are apparently crazy and are tipped to be even worse next year as the Chinese border is open now after a long time closed.
Click to expand...

Japan might still be a possibility. Not sure if the Chinese visit the main island of Honshu, but the skiing appears to be quite solid at the Hakuba and Myoko. Imagine Tokyo weekend skiers would be the main source of crowding. If/when I get back to Japan I plan on skiing a few days here.

I skied Hokkaido a week after Chinese New Year's in early February 2020 and did not notice any real crowding. A few lines mid-day at Niseko (5 min, maybe a rare 10 min), but other resorts like Rusutsu and Kiroro had no lines.

Also, it's important to ski Niseko during snowy, cloudy periods since a lot of it faces south. Kiroro too.
 
Last edited:
Tony Crocker said:
It is relatively easy to join a guided group in most places. Most of the ones I've been in are 4-5 people and big operations like Piste to Powder in St. Anton will have multiple groups at varied ability/pace. Switzerland is the exception. Guided groups are often only one day per week if at all. Private guiding anywhere is expensive. ChrisC has more experience with guided skiing in the Alps and can probably provide more specifics.
Click to expand...

Private guiding is expensive, but when you consider the cost of US lift tickets at Western resorts ($250-ish) without a pass, it's not completely unreasonable - especially with 2 people.

A good list of off-piste Euro areas is here. Yellow itinerary routes in Switzerland are avalanche controlled but not groomed and can provide a safe off-piste experience. There are some in Austria too.

Private guides cost about the following in the main Euro ski countries:
Italy - 350 Euro
France/Austria - 450 Euro
Switzerland - 450-550 CHF

You can generally do a half day for 3-4 hours for about 50-60% of a day's cost. Sometimes one day is all you need because you can ask the guide about different zones (access, stability) for future skiing or return to what the guide took you on.

Better values are joining a group at some of the larger off-piste meccas like St. Anton, Val d'Isere, or Chamonix which can bring costs to around $100 USD per day depending on whether it is a 6 or 8-hour day. American tipping culture is not in effect so it's often buying a guide lunch or beers afterward - and maybe something extra if you had an exceptional day. (My UK friends made me swear I would not go behind their backs and tip American style). Some Swiss resorts are harder to find freeride groups - Verbier, Zermatt, Engelberg, and Andermatt. Or other French resorts. You need to do research/calls to see if they are putting groups together - not just a simple Google search or ChatGBT query.

I have only done the private guide route with 1-2 persons 3x (Val d'Isere, Chamonix, and Verbier) since I wanted to ski some specific advanced routes. However, mostly I have split a guide with friends (4-6 people) or joined a group/freeride camp: Andermatt, Engelberg, Courmayeur, Chamonix (Aguille di Midi / Les Grands Montets), La Grave, Serre Chevalier, Les Deux Alpes, Arlberg (St. Anton/Zurs/Stuben/Rendl), and Japan (Niseko/Kiroro/Rusutsu).

Guides can generally find unskied areas up to a week after a storm. Some want you to even have touring skis if you are going looking for powder. However, do not expect miracles if it's been a week+ without snowfall. Might want to pass on guided skiing.

Also, you can generally ski some off-piste near the pistes. The Euro resorts are required to keep the pistes safe so generally, some terrain around them is controlled to a certain extent.
 
Last edited:
Hakuba, Myoko and Nozawa Onsen (and even Shiga Kogan) will be overrun with Aussies and Chinese this year apparently.
There’s a big contingent of Japan regulars on the Aussie ski forum and a lot are opting to give Japan a miss this year because the demand for accommodation has already reached extremely high levels indicating crowds.
I’m no expert on Japan that’s for sure. So you could be right. It’s certainly the easiest for us to get to. Only 9 hours fly time with no time zone change.

Edit. The majority of accommodation costs have more than doubled since 2020 apparently. I had a quick look and peak season Hakuba is now Aspen prices.
 
ChrisC said:
Private guiding is expensive, but when you consider the cost of US lift tickets at Western resorts ($250-ish) without a pass, it's not completely unreasonable - especially with 2 people.

A good list of off-piste Euro areas is here. Yellow itinerary routes in Switzerland are avalanche controlled but not groomed and can provide a safe off-piste experience. There are some in Austria too.

Private guides cost about the following in the main Euro ski countries:
Italy - 350 Euro
France/Austria - 450 Euro
Switzerland - 450-550 CHF

You can generally do a half day for 3-4 hours for about 50-60% of a day's cost. Sometimes one day is all you need because you can ask the guide about different zones (access, stability) for future skiing or return to what the guide took you on.

Better values are joining a group at some of the larger off-piste meccas like St. Anton, Val d'Isere, or Chamonix which can bring costs to around $100 USD per day depending on whether it is a 6 or 8-hour day. American tipping culture is not in effect so it's often buying a guide lunch or beers afterward - and maybe something extra if you had an exceptional day. (My UK friends made me swear I would not go behind their backs and tip American style). Some Swiss resorts are harder to find freeride groups - Verbier, Zermatt, Engelberg, and Andermatt. Or other French resorts. You need to do research/calls to see if they are putting groups together - not just a simple Google search or ChatGBT query.

I have only done the private guide route with 1-2 persons 3x (Val d'Isere, Chamonix, and Verbier) since I wanted to ski some specific advanced routes. However, mostly I have split a guide with friends (4-6 people) or joined a group/freeride camp: Andermatt, Engelberg, Courmayeur, Chamonix (Aguille di Midi / Les Grands Montets), La Grave, Serre Chevalier, Les Deux Alpes, Arlberg (St. Anton/Zurs/Stuben/Rendl), and Japan (Niseko/Kiroro/Rusutsu).

Guides can generally find unskied areas up to a week after a storm. Some want you to even have touring skis if you are going looking for powder. However, do not expect miracles if it's been a week+ without snowfall. Might want to pass on guided skiing.

Also, you can generally ski some off-piste near the pistes. The Euro resorts are required to keep the pistes safe so generally, some terrain around them is controlled to a certain extent.
Click to expand...
Thanks you. I would be happy to join a guided group. Are the guided groups generally through the resorts or through 3rd party companies?
 
Skieric said:
Are the guided groups generally through the resorts or through 3rd party companies?
Click to expand...
I think more often third party companies. The ones I recall are Piste-to-Powder in St. Anton, Evolution 2 in Chamonix, iSKI and Alpine Experience in Val d'Isere, Guide Alpine di Grosseney in the Monterosa. I'm not sure whether Engelberg Mountain Guides are third party, but I suspect so.
 
Agree. Most guide operations are 3rd party - sometimes through the Guide Bureau (Chamonix, Courmayeur, Verbier, Engleberg) at each resort or an independent guide shop.

Be careful about hiring someone for off-piste skiing from a ski school. Unless they have European Mountain Guide certification, an instructor cannot take you beyond the ski area's boundary or on glaciers. Most ski schools will throw lip service to freeriding, but most instructors do not have IFMGA guide certification. This guide credential can be very important when crossing crevasses, skiing glaciers, setting a belay, etc.

The top 5-10 Euro mega-resorts will often have 3rd party guide outfits that will often cater to English-speaking tourists. The smaller the resort, the harder it will be to find a group to join. Even Zermatt, never really came across something.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jamesdeluxe said:
We've seen variations of this article before; however, #11 is a nice addition.

www.skimag.com

11 Things About Skiing in Europe That Shock Americans

Hint: It's usually not the vertical or the views they can't stop talking about.
www.skimag.com www.skimag.com
Click to expand...
I’ve commented on the food thing before but that article mentioned good food “on and off the slopes”. I guess it all depends on what one defines as good. I’ve been in Europe for 15 days and at every meal I’ve actively pursued lean meat with vegetables and light on the carbs. It’s fU(king impossible.
The steak, frites and ‘salad’ is a token few bits of iceberg lettuce with a piece of red onion or tomato. It’s a joke. I’ve asked for a serve of broccoli or green beans or Brussel sprouts to no avail. It’s all ham, cheese, bread, pasta, pizza etc.
In my experience it’s way easier to get good lean food with veges (off the hill) in North America than it is in Europe.
I’m at a Thai restaurant in Geneva right now and it’s about as Thai as I am. All noodles and no stir fry.
Edit. I did get a good poke bowl that actually had good raw tuna and greens but my group wouldn’t cop going to the same restaurant more than twice.😂
Sorry. Rant over.
 
We do not understand sbooker's Euro food comments at all. Liz is always looking for some veggies when we dine out, and she does not recall ever complaining about this on our Alps trips.

We are a little weird that we don't eat lunches on the mountain that often in Europe:
1) Often our breakfast and dinners are so lavish we don't need lunch.
2) In our compulsion to ski new places, we often need the full day to survey a Euro area due to the scale of even the mom-and-pop places.

Occasionally we do some research for the high end gourmet lunch spots. On mountain Euro lunches do lean heavily in the direction of:
Sbooker said:
It’s all ham, cheese, bread, pasta, pizza etc.
Click to expand...
But with on mountain restaurants being independently owned, it's usually possible to do advance research and find someplace that's different from the norm if that's what you want.

Dinners we have no trouble finding diverse options and the price to quality ratio is definitely better than most places in the US. That goes for the half board hotel dinners too, which is usually the way we go in Austria, and occasionally in the other alpine countries as well.

James has some restrictive dietary preferences and seems not to have problems with them from what we see on mountain, and I know he's also a big fan of the half board arrangements.
 
I understand what sbook is saying. I find the food in Europe very good, but it can lack diversity. Ie: in Italy , for the most part will only find Italian / regional food.
France is the same , here in Amsterdam there is diversity.
 
Last edited:
My comments are not only about lunch on the mountain. In the last two weeks I dined out 12 nights. In proper restaurants. Only two of them could provide a side of green veges. (I don’t class potato as the fresh veg I chase).
Perhaps it’s not the right season for green beans, broccoli, cauliflower, Brussel sprouts, capsicum, zucchini, celery, egg plant etc.
Carrot appears to be more plentiful though.
 
Tony Crocker said:
We do not understand sbooker's Euro food comments at all. Liz is always looking for some veggies when we dine out, and she does not recall ever complaining about this on our Alps trips. (...) with on mountain restaurants being independently owned, it's usually possible to do advance research and find someplace that's different from the norm if that's what you want.
Click to expand...
While I wasn't there to corroborate sbooker's 12 nights of veggie-less dining out in town, I join Tony in scratching my head about the on-mountain complaints. There is some truth to Switzerland and the French Alps leaning toward cheese, ham, and potatoes (e.g. rösti, tartiflette) during ski season; however, I almost always manage to find options, and that's while being a non-meat/poultry person.

Sbooker said:
capsicum (annum)
Click to expand...
Had to look up that term, mainly used in NZ/AU: bell peppers!
 
Capsicum is the the compound that makes peppers spicy. Like you mentioned above some countries use that name for peppers.
 
jamesdeluxe said:
While I wasn't there to corroborate sbooker's 12 nights of veggie-less dining out in town, I join Tony in scratching my head about the on-mountain complaints. There is some truth to Switzerland and the French Alps leaning toward cheese, ham, and potatoes (e.g. rösti, tartiflette) during ski season; however, I almost always manage to find options, and that's while being a non-meat/poultry person.
Click to expand...
To be clear token salads were available. Some iceberg lettuce and a couple of pieces of tomato, I’m talking about proper vegetables.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top