2023-24 Season Plans

S

Sbooker

Well-known member
I'm hoping there's a time when I get past 30 days. Over 50 is a dream. You people that have unlimited time to ski close to home are so lucky.
I had 20 days. 4 in Oregon, 1.5 in Italy, and 14.5 in France. (I'm counting the La thuile/La Rosiere day as a 50/50%. Come to think of it there was a good portion of that day on those two mega drag lifts).:)
My travel partner has messed up my plans for next year with a change of job. I will certainly be doing 20 plus days but the details are up in the air for the minute. There is a chance I will be doing a good portion of those days solo.
We have friends that are casual skiers that will be in Europe in late January/early February. I have considerable pressure to make an effort to meet with them for a short time. Is anyone else planning on a Euro trip in that time frame?
 
Sbooker said:
Is anyone else planning on a Euro trip in that time frame?
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That is our usual time frame. We will probably fly to Zurich this time, but I'm going with James' track record and booking in September/October when the best airfare deals are available.
Over 50 is a dream.
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First attained the year before I retired, but every season since but the obvious exception in 2020.
 
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Tony Crocker said:
That is our usual time frame. We will probably fly to Zurich this time, but I'm going with James' track record and booking in September/October when the best airfare deals are available.

First attained the year before I retired, but every season since but the obvious exception in 2020.
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I’ve noted that best airfare prices from Australia to Europe are the earlier the better. I don’t expect fares will be cheaper than they are now.

Edit. @Tony Crocker you’re quite certain that reasonably priced lodging can be found at short notice in France and Italy in the week or so from January 27? You may be relieved that we’ll have a car this time.
 
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Sbooker said:
you’re quite certain that reasonably priced lodging can be found at short notice in France and Italy in the week or so from January 27?
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James and I have taken multiple trips in late Jan/early Feb and not had any problems. Part of the reason is that we are in cars and have more flexibility where to stay. James is more willing to stay 15-20 minutes down the road to cut costs if necessary. Liz and I are more inclined to be in a resort for 3-4 days at a time all inclusive and not need to take the car out while there. This year's trip was a mix. We had two stops with on-site lodging 4 nights in Serre Chevalier and 3 in Alpe d'Huez. Due to our quest for variety we nonetheless commuted to other ski areas about half of those days. In the Via Lattea we stayed in 3 nights in Cesana Torinese, which required driving to ski every day. We also had 3 "one night stands" moving between regions/ski areas plus the weekend in Monaco, which is a place you really don't want be driving while you are there. All of these were booked no more than 10 days in advance.

There are specific hotels where advance booking is necessary, notably the "Winter Sports Weeks" in January at the Hotel Sandhof in Lech, which James has done once and I have done twice. I no longer see that package offered on Sandhof's website. The other Euro ski lodging which I advance booked was the Club Med in Val Thorens. Being all inclusive including 5 days with guides, I think this is an excellent value when traveling solo. That was why I booked it for March 2020 when Liz was down with the shoulder injury (she wound up going with me when that trip was deferred by the pandemic shutdown), and perhaps something sbooker should consider if he is on his own for part of next season.
 
jamesdeluxe said:
Don't they wait until fall to post those Winter Sport Week packages for the upcoming season?
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I have not seen them since the pandemic, though I don't look that often and don't recall when I was looking. But if they are still available that would be a great setup for sbooker and his wife.
 
The only trips for 2023/24 that are almost locked in:
  • Western Europe: Late January/Early February. Many friends and partners want to ski Europe, so I am taking everyone to Val d'Isere for nearly a week, and adding on Chamonix for the last weekend. (People could go travel after Val d'Isere if they want and skip Chamonix). I cannot really move around much since ski rentals will be involved - people do not own skis and/or want to lug skis. Figure get private guides for 2 days at Val d'Isere, possibly a day trip over to Ste. Foy, and Chamonix play by ear (Brevent/Flegere, Vallee Blanche, Courmayeur). UK friends might come over for Chamonix - then I might add another day or two (possibly heli, Chamonix guided day, Verbier, or Gressoney/Monterosa).
  • Valdez, Alaska: Mid-April. Valdez Mountain Guides. We negotiated a 5-day package with lodging in the town of Valdez (good for down days). Might add an Alyeaska day. (note: Points North, Cordova, Alaska practically had a 100% renewal rate for April. Majestic Heli on the less weather-impacted northern Chugach was too expensive. Canadian day-heli/cat operators had priced themselves too high.
  • Telluride, Colorado. Late February/Early March. 5 days.
  • Some IKON day passes. Mostly for Palisades.
 
ChrisC said:
Late January/Early February........I am taking everyone to Val d'Isere for nearly a week,
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We would be tempted by an encore considering how great our first trip was in April 2018.
ChrisC said:
Telluride, Colorado. Late February/Early March. 5 days.
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I'm guessing this is a recurring event that precludes ChrisC ever taking one of our Mustang seats (in the Feb. 18-24 range) for a year.
 
Sbooker said:
perhaps you could give us an idea of your plans?
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As Tony mentioned, the timing for my two trips each winter to the Alps over the past decade is always the same: just before the school holidays begin the first Saturday of February and immediately after they conclude the first Saturday of March.

I haven't given locations much thought seven months out. Similar to the other Americans here, I choose a gateway airport (usually the nonstop ones from the US East Coast: Geneva, Zurich, or Milan) and make specific plans within a week or two of arrival -- or sometimes the night before! Are you thinking of a certain ski area for a guide?
 
jamesdeluxe said:
As Tony mentioned, the timing for my two trips each winter to the Alps over the past decade is always the same: just before the school holidays begin the first Saturday of February and immediately after they conclude the first Saturday of March.

I haven't given locations much thought seven months out. Similar to the other Americans here, I choose a gateway airport (usually the nonstop ones from the US East Coast: Geneva, Zurich, or Milan) and make specific plans within a week or two of arrival -- or sometimes the night before! Are you thinking of a certain ski area for a guide?
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I’m not wedded to any particular area although my wife would like to check out Briancon at some point. We fly into Milan on the 26th of January and will probably have a night there to recuperate from the 24hr flight. And we want to be in Austria the week prior to our departure from Munich on the 18th of February.
We’d probably opt to avoid Paradiski and Val D’Isere/Tignes as we have been to those two locations the past two times we’ve been to Europe. And Kylie would not suit anything too gnarly as she is cautious. (But strangely enough somewhat adventurous if snow conditions are nice).
That leaves a lot of mountains I guess. We’ll have a car and are not afraid of an hour or so drive before a ski day so that opens up heaps of territory.
 
Tony Crocker said:
We would be tempted by an encore considering how great our first trip was in April 2018.
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I like Val d'Isere/Tignes and there are still many off-piste lines/areas that I have not skied. Especially some of the steeper couloirs.

And if I am taking a group of Euro-newbies from the Bay area, I need a place with slopeside/walkable lodging, history, terrain for multiple days, reliable snowfall, snowmaking, intermediate terrain/moderate off-piste, and altitude. Also, my familiarity with Val d'Isere helps, and a family Telluride friend who now winter patrols there (Dad was a French/Val d'Isere patroller and mom was a Tellurider). Also, Chamonix is a must-see for a Geneva gateway trip and can be easily added to a week in Val d'Isere.

I considered Zermatt and St. Anton/Lech, but:
  • Zermatt is a little unreliable since its subsurface is so rocky and snowfall is a bit meager at times. Also, I have done all the really interesting Zermatt areas (outside of the Shwarztor which can be done from Monterosa with an off-piste return from Cervinia to Champlouc).
  • A surprising number of American skiers are unfamiliar with St. Anton/Lech/Arlberg. France/Switzerland seem to capture the ski imagination. Also, while I know Tony & James prefer a Lech base, I do not. I think its connection to Zurs is weak (especially returns) and cuts off the areas of St. Anton/Rendl/Stuben. Lech is a bit bus-centric except for Warth.
  • Trois Vallees. Huge but Meribel or Val Thorens are not the most authentic bases.
Not sure if it would be worth replacing Chamonix with Zermatt. I thought it would be too long of a drive.

Watch this be a banner year for the Dolomites. Might see if the group stays smaller till December to pull the trigger. It's an easy sell to switch to Venice/Cotina/Sella Ronda.

Tony Crocker said:
I'm guessing this is a recurring event that precludes ChrisC ever taking one of our Mustang seats (in the Feb. 18-24 range) for a year.
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Now that there is really no more reasonably-priced day heli/cat skiing in BC, time to get serious about a lodge. Better deal.

Telluride is a floating 5-days that I prefer to ski in either late Feb/early March (snow/beginning of stability) or late Mach/early April (family free time/KOTO end-of-season concert/good alpine bases).

In fact, I like going to Telluride's Closing weekend KOTO Pink Flamingo Party because I will dress up and win prizes like lift tickets, gear and restaurant vouchers.

Staging for 2019
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Walk downtown
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KOTO Festival Block Party - Family.
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I win again. Winner's view from stage.
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Tony Crocker said:
It looks like at least 3 of us, as James nearly always chooses this time frame too.
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Almost all my Alps skiing has taken place during this late January/early February time frame. It is easy to book lodging, cheaper mid-winter airfares/lodging/rental car rates, snow has generally accumulated in sufficient quantities and the quality of the snow even down into the valleys is good.

Exceptions to this time frame were summer glacier-skiing in July 2004 (Zermatt/Cevinia), Christmas/New Year 2004-05 (Chamonix region), and work-enabled trips in April 2018 (Zermatt/Paradiski/Val Thorens) and Feb/March 2020 (Andermatt, Laax, Arosa/Lenzerheide, St. Moritz).
 
Sbooker said:
And we want to be in Austria the week prior to our departure from Munich on the 18th of February.
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Well, you obviously need to stop off in the Arlberg (St Anton or Lech). Lech is definitely more elegant/upscale with great skiing, but I like St. Anton location-wise. Either way, I discovered that going to Warth from St. Anton for half a day, taking the bus back from Lech (30+ min) after an apres-ski drink at the bar along the river is the way to go. There is a lot of mileage to be covered. Also, the guide operation Piste-to-Powder (group guiding, English-speaking, lots of skier levels) is based in St. Anton.

You could base in Innsbruck for a few days and daytrip to Stubai Glacier and others in the area: Nordkett, Kuhai (etc.).

Ischgl, Obergurgl and Solden are on the way. Done Ischgl and liked it a lot. Obergugl/Solden with UK friends was a COVID sacrifice.

Also, Garmisch-Partenkirchen is right over the Austrian border in Germany - less than an hour from Munich. Supposedly has a beautiful town and glacier & piste skiing in Germany's highest peak - the Zugspitze. (pic)

Migh just skip Kitzbuhel/Salbaach depending on snow/time.

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ChrisC said:
Well, you obviously need to stop off in the Arlberg (St Anton or Lech). Lech is definitely more elegant/upscale with great skiing, but I like St. Anton location-wise. Either way, I discovered that going to Warth from St. Anton for half a day, taking the bus back from Lech (30+ min) after an apres-ski drink at the bar along the river is the way to go. There is a lot of mileage to be covered. Also, the guide operation Piste-to-Powder (group guiding, English-speaking, lots of skier levels) is based in St. Anton.

You could base in Innsbruck for a few days and daytrip to Stubai Glacier and others in the area: Nordkett, Kuhai (etc.).

Ischgl, Obergurgl and Solden are on the way. Done Ischgl and liked it a lot. Obergugl/Solden with UK friends was a COVID sacrifice.

Also, Garmisch-Partenkirchen is right over the Austrian border in Germany - less than an hour from Munich. Supposedly has a beautiful town and glacier & piste skiing in Germany's highest peak - the Zugspitze. (pic)

Migh just skip Kitzbuhel/Salbaach depending on snow/time.

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There are so many places in Austria to check out. We've only been to the Zillertal and a few nights in Innsbruck town. We loved both areas.
We are not big partiers so the crazy apres that St Anton is known for would be wasted on us. I have a self imposed no drinks prior to 6pm rule that seems to serve me well. Also we don't need extreme terrain. Those guides from Cham that broke my confidence in Courmayeur in January this year have cured me of gnarly skiing I think. I'd prefer to be somewhere that we can get at fresh snow without too much competition. I'm guessing the Arlberg region is about as competitive as gets?
 
Sbooker said:
I'm guessing the Arlberg region is about as competitive as gets
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You have to keep in mind that St. Anton is a completely different kettle of fish from Lech/Zürs/Warth. St. Anton is the Austrian version of Alta/Snowbird with much higher powder competition, lots of expert terrain onpiste and off, and a big après-ski scene.

Lech/Zürs is a much bigger version of Deer Valley: mostly intermediate onpiste with extensive offpiste (including a fair amount of challenging terrain) and comparatively little powder competition. The villages cater to rich people; however, there are reasonable off-peak options for mere mortals too (this isn't publicised very much). Warth/Schröcken is similar to Lech/Zürs as far as terrain but culturally more of a family resort.
 
Sbooker said:
I'm guessing the Arlberg region is about as competitive as gets?
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That was not our experience in 2017, but we were based in Lech. St. Anton is not a good place for someone like sbooker's wife. The runs coming back into the resort are low and SE facing and can be full of hard packed moguls late in the day.
ChrisC said:
I discovered that going to Warth from St. Anton for half a day, taking the bus back from Lech (30+ min) after an apres-ski drink at the bar along the river is the way to go.
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That works in reverse too, as that's what Liz and I did the day we skied mostly in St. Anton. Also the very worthwhile Arlberg ski museum in St. Anton is open mostly during apres ski hours.
ChrisC said:
There is a lot of mileage to be covered.
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Absolutely and in the Arlberg it's a sprawl. Thus the rationale for skiing in one direction and taking a bus back to your starting point.
ChrisC said:
Also, the guide operation Piste-to-Powder (group guiding, English-speaking, lots of skier levels) is based in St. Anton.
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This is the one aspect where staying in Lech is less convenient. Piste-to-Powder wants you at their St. Anton office at 8:45AM. The pay bus between St. Anton and Lech runs only once an hour so I had to take an 8:00AM bus a couple of times in 2013. I was with my intermediate friend Richard then and knew I should base in Lech with him as sbooker should with his wife. Piste-to-Powder has 4 levels of guided groups, so like ChrisC I recommend it highly to sbooker.
 
All good info above. Thank you.
If paying for two Piste to Powder spots would a private guide not be an option to think about? I’m sure they have that kind of service in Austria?
Edit. Just reread the Piste to Powder page. The groups are much better value.
 
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