Article: How to Ski 12 Months a Year in North America

Was Patrick consulted for this?

His recommendations for December to April might be different.

Maybe, summer too sometimes.

I have no problem with their nominations. It was apparent they wanted to spread the love around, although January in Banff could likely be dang cold. It's just that I'd have a hard time getting motivated to do Ski Ward in October even if I only lived 60 mins away. Same for white ribbon of death almost anywhere in Nov and Dec. If I had to travel any distance I'd much rather spend time and money to ski in the shoulder season of late spring than the shoulder season of early winter due to better snow, more terrain open, and friendlier temps.

ChrisC said:

His recommendations for December to April might be different.

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Patrick spends December - March 95+% at Ottawa molehills coaching. Only in recent years has he even traveled much in April.

He just celebrated his 60th birthday at SNØ Oslo in Norway. If he's going to ski indoors, at least he was probably at the best area in the world for it. Since it's June, he should get to ski the 3 outdoor areas what were closed when we were in Norway in August 2022.

Both Patrick and Ron Cram responded to that SnowBrains FB post. Patrick's ski streak will hit 20 years in September. Ron Cram's is 32+ years and in the FB post he says he's keeping it going after a knee replacement. That was the reason Bob Peters' streak ended at 200 months.

jimk said:

I'd have a hard time getting motivated to do Ski Ward in October even if I only lived 60 mins away.

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October is the one that usually requires dedication to a streak. I first skied Aug/Sep in New Zealand in 1982. So with October being my only lifetime unskied month I could not resist the 700 vertical of Killington's Upper Cascade in Oct. 1988 after an actuarial meeting in Boston. I have 3 other October days, one on AT at Mammoth in 2011 to continue a streak. The others in 2004 and 2021 were legit ski days at Big Bear and Mammoth after major storms.

Tony Crocker said:

October is the one that usually requires dedication to a streak.

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I feel like that needs an addendum. Not that I have any interest in a ski streak, but Colo has nearly guaranteed to give you the option for a local October ski day for a very long time. Loveland was the place for a long time, with only a couple of delays to early Nov dates going all the way back to the late 70's. With A-Basin the current standard bearer for Oct skiing locally.

Of course Sept would be much more difficult out this way many years; though you could probably have some tiny patches to ski even then if you were so dedicated to finding usable one(s).

EMSC said:

I feel like that needs an addendum.

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I would agree with this.

Before the ASC's demise, several New England ski areas would attempt to win marketing bragging rights by opening in October. These included:

• Killington (Ski Ltd and ASC days)
• Mt Snow (Ski Ltd)
• Sugarbush North
• Sunday River (Otten/ASC days)
• Woodbury, CT (random Octobers)
• Ski Ward (more recent)

September skiing is perhaps the most difficult to find lift-served skiing in North America.

Timberline, OR, no longer seems able to make it to Labor Day on the Palmer Snowfield, and is lucky to stay open till August.

However, if you can get to the Northwest, many of the volcanoes can offer decent September skiing, with Adams, Rainier, and others (Shasta?).


Note: I am impressed that A-Basin was able to install sensitive above-tree-line/alpine snowmaking equipment post-2000, given the environmental scrutiny. How were they able to obtain water rights and build a reservoir at that stage?

Tony Crocker said:

Patrick spends December - March 95+% at Ottawa molehills coaching. Only in recent years has he even traveled much in April.

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He must love it. Me:

I easily gave up any of the PSIA (Professional Ski Instructors of America) and NSP (National Ski Patrol) Certifications by my mid-20s. And 'retirement'/end from ski racing by age 19 was super-appreciated.

All the above got in the way of learning Telemark skiing, moving out west, freeride skiing, and mountaineering.

However, racing, teaching, and patrolling were ways to get to the mountains, earn some money, and have some reciprocal ski days, among other benefits.

ChrisC said:

I am impressed that A-Basin was able to install sensitive above-tree-line/alpine snowmaking equipment post-2000, given the environmental scrutiny. How were they able to obtain water rights and build a reservoir at that stage?

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Calling @spinbackwards

EMSC said:

I feel like that needs an addendum.

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My point is that even if you are not thinking about a ski streak, you might be enticed into Aug/Sep in the Southern Hemisphere on its own merits. That was me in 1982. I did not even ski July 1982 even though Mammoth was still open; my first July at Mammoth was in 1983, and I have had 8 more since then.

Nobody (except Patrick a couple of years ago ) is going south for October.

EMSC said:

Colo has nearly guaranteed to give you the option for a local October ski day for a very long time.

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This is true but it's always the WROD with extreme skier density and sometimes liftlines to match. That was my option after skiing 12 months Oct. 2004 - Sept. 2005 and I passed. Has EMSC or spinbackwards, for whom it's a daytrip, ever done it?

ChrisC said:

Killington (Ski Ltd and ASC days)

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That was what lured me in 1988. I thought it was a unique opportunity at the time, and cost was trivial since I was in the area anyway.

ChrisC said:

However, if you can get to the Northwest, many of the volcanoes can offer decent September skiing, with Adams, Rainier, and others (Shasta?).

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Yes. Its not an accident that the Turns All Year website is dominated by Northwest backcountry skiers.

jimk said:

I have no problem with their nominations. It was apparent they wanted to spread the love around, although January in Banff could likely be dang cold. It's just that I'd have a hard time getting motivated to do Ski Ward in October even if I only lived 60 mins away. Same for white ribbon of death almost anywhere in Nov and Dec. If I had to travel any distance I'd much rather spend time and money to ski in the shoulder season of late spring than the shoulder season of early winter due to better snow, more terrain open, and friendlier temps.

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There's a blast from my past. I grew up in central Massachusetts, about 20 minutes, or so, from "Ski Ward" (called "Ward Hill" in the old days). I, more or less, learned to ski there. It is truly a bump of a hill, 220 feet of vertical. I believe, if my memory is correct, that my junior high school offered an after-school ski day there each week. I believe they had a T-Bar and a couple of rope tows that went up a moderate incline. The website says they now have a triple chair (not sure why you need a chairlift for such a short ride; I thought the T-Bar was overkill). I'm amazed a place like that, in central New England, has survived for the past 55 years or so, with the miserable Winters that we have had for a couple of decades (we used to actually have real snow storms back in the 60's). Obviously, they rely heavily on man-made snow to stay open.

But, yea, Jim K, I would not drive 10 minutes to ski at Ski Ward in October.

Tony Crocker said:

Has EMSC or spinbackwards, for whom it's a daytrip, ever done it?

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I had a Fintech Conference at the Denver Convention Center in mid/late October 2015.

I planned to come out early and attempt to ski either A-Basin or Loveland.

Instead, there was not a flake of snow at 14k+ ft, and skiing was limited to sand sandy surfaces @ Great Sand Dunes NP.






Further West - Great Sand Dunes NP.



Not sure if A-Basin just barely made October the following week.

If you have free October skiing at A-Basin via an Ikon Pass, and never bother - speaks to the quality of the experience.

Early Turns:
I have only skied Killington - 2x in October back East, and Mammoth in October 2004 after 5-7 ft new. (Even Hangman’s was open.)

ChrisC said:

Great Sand Dunes NP

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Can you or @Tony Crocker describe what it's like to ski on sand (or link to an existing report)?

jamesdeluxe said:

Can you or @Tony Crocker describe what it's like to ski on sand (or link to an existing report)?

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I think it’s novel, a little fun - but basically a near death experience, hard falls and not much skiing or continuous vertical. A few ‘runs’ for 1-2 hours and call it a day.

I have even done Sand Dune Snowboarding in Florence, OR at Oregon Dunes National Recreation Area. You would even wax your board. (This was not my suggestion, a friend wanted to do it).

We stopped strapping into bindings eventually and just road the boards like sleds.

I don’t think this existed yet:

Sand-boarding was during a trip up the CA/OR coast in September 2004 stopping at Redwoods NP, OR Dunes, Canon Beach, Portlandia (20 something retirement Mecca, like The Villages, FL but younger/more liberal) and Crater Lake NP.


Overall, I think one can lead a very full life without sand sliding. 2 days will be lifetime max. Climbing up dunes can be a pain too.

jimk said:

January in Banff could likely be dang cold.

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Banff in January can be incredibly cold.

Also, Banff can take a while to accumulate snow, and the best of Lake Louise and Sunshine will be closed or not well covered.

If you want Sunshine’s: Delirium Dive, Wild West, Goats Eye upper mountain or Lake Louise’s: Back Bowls, Summit Chair, Ptarmigan areas, one should wait until February.

Lake Louise has lower than average Rocky Mt / BC snowfall so it can take a while.

jamesdeluxe said:

Can you or @Tony Crocker describe what it's like to ski on sand (or link to an existing report)?

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That was on a board not skis and quite short, maybe 100 vertical if that. I've never sand skied. I investigated a guy in Namibia who offered it but he left Namibia before we were there.

ChrisC said:

If you have free October skiing at A-Basin via an Ikon Pass, and never bother - speaks to the quality of the experience.

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Yes there is a limit of 5 or 7 days, and most Colorado locals would surely want to use all of them March-May. However, look at the pics of those October liftlines....

Tony Crocker said:

This is true but it's always the WROD with extreme skier density and sometimes liftlines to match. That was my option after skiing 12 months Oct. 2004 - Sept. 2005 and I passed. Has EMSC or spinbackwards, for whom it's a daytrip, ever done it?

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Uh...., yep. More before joining FTO, but, it happens (lol):
2009
2007

Pretty sure I have a couple more in recent years with Jr getting on snow early for race training, but couldn't quickly find them in a search. Weekdays (except opening day itself) are much less of 'hordes' of skiers and are plausible if you are looking for exercise and to get ski legs going.

ChrisC said:

Note: I am impressed that A-Basin was able to install sensitive above-tree-line/alpine snowmaking equipment post-2000, given the environmental scrutiny. How were they able to obtain water rights and build a reservoir at that stage?

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It was controversial at the time but the general gist is by going tiny. The reservoir is tiny (barely more than one trail's worth of snow). The water rights are also tiny and last in line of getting filled. Thus Abasin makes a splash on opening first (the reservoir is already full for that first trail; but then often takes weeks to get any meaningful additional terrain open). I believe their new master plan this spring finally proposes expansion of the entire system.

jamesdeluxe said:

Can you or @Tony Crocker describe what it's like to ski on sand (or link to an existing report)?

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What ChrisC said. WAY different than snow skiing. It's rather slow even on the steepest dune you can find. Turns take far more force to get skis to come around, etc.. not that you actually want to turn much as the speeds are so slow anyway. My FTO post at Great Sand Dunes.

Somewhere on here I also did a couple of pics 'skiing' at White Sands, NM too (didn't find that one easily by searching though).

EMSC said:

WAY different than snow skiing. It's rather slow even on the steepest dune you can find. Turns take far more force to get skis to come around, etc.. not that you actually want to turn much as the speeds are so slow anyway.

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Did you use long boards because they helped in the sand or just because they were old and you didn't care what happened to them?

jamesdeluxe said:

Did you use long boards because they helped in the sand or just because they were old and you didn't care what happened to them?

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Start with old gear that I don't care about, then within that group find the shortest I had that the bindings still OK-ish. Believe it or not those were old SL skis.