Alta Delays Opening

[socal]

This is not a big deal; the odds of socal and johnnash's Christmas week trips being bad are still very low.

But anyone considering flying somewhere to ski before Christmas week surely should be booking Whistler now.

I look forward to MarcC successfully this thread to SLC's fine dining options.

Sorry for the hijack, didn't want to start a new thread for whatever reason. We've had (a few times I'm sure) the fine dining in SLC conversation before, usually I don't care because I just go with some buddys and do it on the cheap. This one's me, my girlfirend, and another couple so we'll probably try out a nice restaurant or two in SLC, and also in PC.

Regarding Whistler, if it didn't cost so much and take so long to get there we'd be going there. SLC is just a great option for the limited time we've got, plus I figured with the Ogden resorts/Solitude we'd have options to avoid the crowds if the weather cooperate. I've been following the snow reports/weather and, wow, it's pretty amazing whats going on up north. I actually was just looking into a quick 3 day trip up to Mt. Baker ($200 r/t from LAX and the times work well) in early Dec for this reason.

If the Mammoth storm pans out (not likely at this point) I am considering it for the weekend.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Whistler is exorbitantly priced during the Christmas holidays, which SLC is not. That's why I said before Christmas for Whistler. January should be good up there too. It will be interesting to see if the spectacular start to their season generates enough extra skier visits to offset those who will stay away because of the Olympics.

I actually was just looking into a quick 3 day trip up to Mt. Baker ($200 r/t from LAX and the times work well) in early Dec for this reason.

Good idea. I combined Baker and Whistler on my last trip up there in January 2008. It snowed every day. I'm guessing you're flying to Seattle though. If so don't miss Crystal if its base has built up some more by then.

 

[socal]

Two years ago I did a 3 day weekend skiing 2 at Whistler and one at Baker in early December. Huge storm cycle like this one and another was on it's way, booked the flights/hotel/car then the freezing levels went to 2500m and they got 3-5 inches of water. Whatever wasn't frozen at whistler was basically just avy debris from the cycle that passed. PNW locals, pray I don't book this trip. ](*,)

 

[longshanks]

Wow children, play nice now. I have read through all of these posts and I'm not real sure what all the fuss is about - except maybe two of you are cranky and in need of a nap or a good spanking.

Personally, I believe that all of this Alta BS is just a load of bad karma coming back home to roost. Maybe its what you get for not letting Snowboarders share in the fun, ya know what i'm saying bro?

Can't we all just get along?
Ride On!
Peace

 

[rfarren]

Wow children, play nice now. I have read through all of these posts and I'm not real sure what all the fuss is about - except maybe two of you are cranky and in need of a nap or a good spanking.

Personally, I believe that all of this Alta BS is just a load of bad karma coming back home to roost. Maybe its what you get for not letting Snowboarders share in the fun, ya know what i'm saying bro?

Can't we all just get along?
Ride On!
Peace

May it never snow again, the day Alta allows boarders. It would ruin the atmosphere, and some of the better, and easily accessible lines.

 

[Tony Crocker]

then the freezing levels went to 2500m

That's an outlier event. 1500m would be more typical. That's nearly the top of Baker's lifts though. Baker was good when I was there but the powder was definitely heavier than Whistler's. Another reason to keep Crystal in mind if you're going to Seattle as the top there is 7,000 vs. 5,000 at Baker. But current base depths at Crystal are 23-40 vs. 62-72 at Baker. Both have some very steep terrain, so I have to believe quite a bit of Crystal isn't covered adequately yet.

FYI the with ongoing storms the snow level is predicted to go up to that 1500m tomorrow before dropping again by the weekend.

 

[mbaydala]

Well here is one for you. As a snow starved Utard looking to do some real skiing this weekend, would mount baker be the place to go weather wise for the Sat-Mon time period. Four of us from Park City were all excited to ski over at Alta this weekend before the two weekend storms became forecast to produces less than significant amounts of snow. That being said does anyone know how long of a drive it is, say from PC to Baker?

 

[Marc_C]

... does anyone know how long of a drive it is, say from PC to Baker?

Use 15 hrs as a working estimate. In 3 days you'll be far more tired from driving than skiing.

 

[longshanks]

Personally, I believe that all of this Alta BS is just a load of bad karma coming back home to roost. Maybe its what you get for not letting Snowboarders share in the fun, ya know what i'm saying bro?

Can't we all just get along?
Ride On!
Peace

May it never snow again, the day Alta allows boarders. It would ruin the atmosphere, and some of the better, and easily accessible lines.

Be careful what you wish for...is sharing a slope with snowboarders really that bad? I don't see how boarders could ruin atmosphere or easily accessible lines but hey, I respect your right to your opinion. Maybe its just because there are a few bad apples in every bushel. Many times I have witnesses young riders of both disciplines who lack on-hill etiquette and show no respect at all. I blame their parents for not teaching common courtesy and not using a little good old fashioned discipline to enforce the lesson. I am have been boarding for over 20 years and all of my riding mates are skiers, I always wait up for them and they for me - we co-exist, its the Canadian way. I have never been to Utah, and guess that I will have to be satisfied with Snowbird if I ever get to LCC.

Does Alta allow the rarely seen mono ski?

 

[Tony Crocker]

Be careful what you wish for...is sharing a slope with snowboarders really that bad?

Perhaps some feedback from people who skied/boarded Taos last season vs. prior seasons would be helpful. Taos is also traverse-intensive to many of the best skiable lines, and with a far more fragile snowpack than Alta's.

 

[Marc_C]

Does Alta allow the rarely seen mono ski?

Yes, they do, but since there are only about 3 folks in the state that regularly use them, it's not a big issue.

The big issues with boarders at Alta do not include a difficulty in "sharing the slope". Instead they seem to be:

1) we have a lot of traverses and hikes - many of them are flat or distinctly up hill and require side-stepping. Boarders on these would leave a forest of annoying post-holes. Just look at the Bookends Traverse and the traverse to the chute on the opposite side of Mineral Basin at Snowbird and the rising traverse on the west side of Honeycomb Canyon at Solitude for ample evidence.

2) for every boarder who knows how to carve a turn on steep terrain, there seem to be 20 who only know how to get down with the heel-side slip. It pretty much trashes the line for skiers. Again, look at Snowbird for ample evidence of this. (Yes, there are skiers who get in over their head and are just as guilty - myself included - but overall, empirically, it seems to happen less with skiers than boarders.)

3) Boarders make differently shaped and spaced bumps that skiers don't like. Personally, that's not a big deal for me since I pretty much suck at bumps.

 

[Skrad]

Hi.

I live in Seattle but spend my winters in SLC. I lived in SLC year round from '99 to '07. Seattle is prettier and more happening/ SLC has drier snow.

In reference to the above, it is a LONG drive from PC to Mt. Baker. Think 11 hours to Seattle plus 2.5 more to Baker.

I skied Baker last Friday/ Saturday and can report that it was excellent. Wall to wall coverage and Shuksan arm offered up a great Slackcountry powder lap (2 laps, actually). Since then, it has rained, snowed, rained, and is supposed to snow again. Nice thing about the snow out here is it only takes 6" to cover over the ugly.

I skied Crystal today. The steeps are adequately covered off REX and GVX. There are some shrubs sticking through but not a lot in the way of rocks. It was a lot soggier than last weekend; the snowline was at the base of REX (5280'). That said, the snowline is to come down and the Backcountry to open this weekend.

Good luck with your travels out here. Obviously, it is easy to look across the border and see how much has fallen at Whistler. Whistler is a 4.5 hour drive from Seattle assuming an easy border crossing. And without the Alpine (extreme avy hazard) I would take the open terrain at Baker OR Crystal over Whistler. Baker would be boring for four days unless you have the Backcountry knowledge. Even then, the danger is now much higher than last weekend.

Doug

 

[Admin]

Great post, Skrad! Very informative of what's going on up there. We've long had a void in the PNW reporting around here...it'll be nice to have you post regularly throughout the season. Welcome.

 

[rfarren]

Does Alta allow the rarely seen mono ski?

Yes, they do, but since there are only about 3 folks in the state that regularly use them, it's not a big issue.

The big issues with boarders at Alta do not include a difficulty in "sharing the slope". Instead they seem to be:

1) we have a lot of traverses and hikes - many of them are flat or distinctly up hill and require side-stepping. Boarders on these would leave a forest of annoying post-holes. Just look at the Bookends Traverse and the traverse to the chute on the opposite side of Mineral Basin at Snowbird and the rising traverse on the west side of Honeycomb Canyon at Solitude for ample evidence.

2) for every boarder who knows how to carve a turn on steep terrain, there seem to be 20 who only know how to get down with the heel-side slip. It pretty much trashes the line for skiers. Again, look at Snowbird for ample evidence of this. (Yes, there are skiers who get in over their head and are just as guilty - myself included - but overall, empirically, it seems to happen less with skiers than boarders.)

3) Boarders make differently shaped and spaced bumps that skiers don't like. Personally, that's not a big deal for me since I pretty much suck at bumps.

I think Marc hit it on the nail, especially on point 2. I have a good friend who boards, and I have nothing against him because he boards. However, after following him through some time spots, I told him "thanks but no thanks, I'll go first next time."

 

[Tony Crocker]

We've long had a void in the PNW reporting around here...it'll be nice to have you post regularly throughout the season.

It would indeed, but he won't be there long.

I live in Seattle but spend my winters in SLC.

Larry Schick must not be around. I would have heard about Crystal by now, plus his Ski Washington weather blog has not been updated since Nov. 10.

 

[longshanks]

Does Alta allow the rarely seen mono ski?

Yes, they do, but since there are only about 3 folks in the state that regularly use them, it's not a big issue.

The big issues with boarders at Alta do not include a difficulty in "sharing the slope". Instead they seem to be:

1) we have a lot of traverses and hikes - many of them are flat or distinctly up hill and require side-stepping. Boarders on these would leave a forest of annoying post-holes. Just look at the Bookends Traverse and the traverse to the chute on the opposite side of Mineral Basin at Snowbird and the rising traverse on the west side of Honeycomb Canyon at Solitude for ample evidence.

2) for every boarder who knows how to carve a turn on steep terrain, there seem to be 20 who only know how to get down with the heel-side slip. It pretty much trashes the line for skiers. Again, look at Snowbird for ample evidence of this. (Yes, there are skiers who get in over their head and are just as guilty - myself included - but overall, empirically, it seems to happen less with skiers than boarders.)

3) Boarders make differently shaped and spaced bumps that skiers don't like. Personally, that's not a big deal for me since I pretty much suck at bumps.

I think Marc hit it on the nail, especially on point 2. I have a good friend who boards, and I have nothing against him because he boards. However, after following him through some time spots, I told him "thanks but no thanks, I'll go first next time."

Many thanks to both Marc & Rob for their posts on this...now I get it. I just assumed that the probibition on boarders was rooted in some kind of elitest skier prejudice. One should never assume...From what you have described of the terrain challenges (traverses & hikes), I don't blame them for the ban. Never been to Snowbird either, but I will take your word on that as well. Personally I loath flat or worse yet, uphill traverses as they just cause Skootch leg and exhaustion. And as far as hiking for better lines goes, I avoid it unless there is a well established boot pack.

For more on Skootch leg check this video out
http://www.thebase.ca/snowboarding/adul ... y_snow.php

Shanks

 

[Tony Crocker]

Never been to Snowbird either, but I will take your word on that as well.

Only the most incredibly spoiled Utah locals would nitpick Snowbird's snow conditions. 99+% of ski areas in the world would KILL to have anything similar. Are Alta's conditions better? Generally yes until sometime in March. :stir: But more of Alta's early/mid-season advantage is due to layout/topography/higher base/more snow than to lack of snowboarders IMHO.

Taos gets barely over half Alta's snowfall. To the extent snowboards degrade conditions, the impact at Taos (heel scraping, etc.) would surely be much more than at Alta. I'm guessing the impact hasn't been a lot, because snowboarders do not like traverse intensive mountains. But I'll defer to Taos local feedback if we can get any.

 

[Marc_C]

Never been to Snowbird either, but I will take your word on that as well.

Only the most incredibly spoiled Utah locals would nitpick Snowbird's snow conditions. 99+% of ski areas in the world would KILL to have anything similar. Are Alta's conditions better? Generally yes until sometime in March. :stir: But more of Alta's early/mid-season advantage is due to layout/topography/higher base/more snow than to lack of snowboarders IMHO.

Are you eating mushrooms again? How on earth did you surmise that from anything written about snowboarding in this thread?

 

[rsmith]

Never been to Snowbird either, but I will take your word on that as well.

Only the most incredibly spoiled Utah locals would nitpick Snowbird's snow conditions. 99+% of ski areas in the world would KILL to have anything similar. Are Alta's conditions better? Generally yes until sometime in March. :stir: But more of Alta's early/mid-season advantage is due to layout/topography/higher base/more snow than to lack of snowboarders IMHO.

Taos gets barely over half Alta's snowfall. To the extent snowboards degrade conditions, the impact at Taos (heel scraping, etc.) would surely be much more than at Alta. I'm guessing the impact hasn't been a lot, because snowboarders do not like traverse intensive mountains. But I'll defer to Taos local feedback if we can get any.

I find it impossible to defend Alta's snowboarder ban anymore. The arguments for remaining ski-only are easily discounted and the voices in favor of the ban sound more and more snobbish and elitist as time goes by. Are boarders' side-slips and post-hole hikes more damaging than skiers? Probably. But absolutely nothing has been as damaging to untracked powder as high-speed lifts. Alta skier numbers have only recently rebounded to the highs of the mid-80's, yet untracked lasts hours now instead of days. Why? Powderhounds can now lap runs at (at least) twice the rate as before. The complaints surrounding Alta putting in high-speed lifts pales in comparison to the noise surrounding allowing boarders - the only conclusion is that snow preservation is not the driving factor behind the boarder ban. It's cultural elitism, period. There's a set of skier's who still think they can't coexist with boarders - yet somehow at practically every other resort on the planet it's worked out. Everyone has adjusted to the fact that you have to be a little more vigilant due to uncontrolled boarders - it's a small price to pay for being able to ski with a mixed crowd and enjoy for yourself the unique thrills of boarding.

I tend to the think the actual impact of allowing boarders at Alta would be minimal, both culturally and in terms of snow quality. As Tony says boarders don't prefer to traverse so Alta will likely never turn into a boarder hotspot. Alta will likely never turn into a park paradise and half-pipes are pretty much out of the question. Only the more advanced boarders will typically hit the great lines (and it's arguable that due to tighter turns and a single edge that advanced boarder's actually do less damage than a good skier).

It's well past time to make the change...

 

[rfarren]

Only the more advanced boarders will typically hit the great lines (and it's arguable that due to tighter turns and a single edge that advanced boarder's actually do less damage than a good skier).

It's well past time to make the change...

Those great lines, at least many of them require traversing.... hence post holes. I strongly disagree with you that snowboarders make tighter turns, in fact most snowboarders make asymmetrical turns and are incapable of making symmetrical turns.

I doubt Alta would gain anything by allowing snowboarders. It's not as though their business model isn't working. I don't understand the whole "elitist" argument. I promise you this: if Alta saw that they could increase their profits by 15% by allowing snowboarders they would.

I really hate it when snowboarders talk as though they are being discriminated against. It's not like a snowboarders are a different gender or race.