I don’t either. I suspect just being associated with Epstein is a bad look and they know it.
Trump is a creep. I’d love for him to be taken down with hard irrefutable evidence.
American Election 2024
- Thread starter Sbooker
- Start date
Trump is a creep. I’d love for him to be taken down with hard irrefutable evidence.
Don't hold your breath. The Access Hollywood tape didn't do it, and neither did the Jan. 6 Capitol riot.
I'm still astonished by this.
I often try to imagine Anthony Albanese or any other Australian politician pulling the same following and displaying the same behaviour as Trump. I can't get it to even remotely compute.
jimk
Well-known member
Because it's raining out and I can't do the yardwork I'm supposed to do today here are my thoughts on Jan 6
This is from a person who has voted for and against DJT in the past.I'll start by saying I was really angry when Jan 6th happened. It was a riot that DJT might have been able to dampen if he'd made a statement or took other actions to aid in subduing the crowd. But he didn't. What those folks did was against the law. The lady that got shot and killed by the
Capitol guard deserved it. I couldn't believe her family eventually got compensated millions. What took place in many ways represented a minor, modern day rebellion. Everybody that got thrown in jail because of it deserved to serve their full sentences and I was disappointed when they got let off.
However, here is my rationalization for getting past this incident to the point that I could vote for DJT in 2024. DJT is an egomaniac. He viewed the rioters as an exuberant fan club. The bigger and noisier they got, the more they loved him. Sure, they caused some damage to furniture, but they meant well in DJTs mind. They were mostly a threat to themselves, Capitol police, and a few stray legislators still wandering the halls when they got into the building. DJTs fault is not that he stirred them to violence. I think they took that upon themselves when the day transitioned from demonstration to riot. DJTs failure was that he did not make a statement or appearance to quell them when things got out of control. Instead, he soaked up what he viewed as adulation. I personally do not believe they represented a huge, immediate threat to our government or a long term threat to our democracy. They were just a bunch of knuckleheaded deplorables that went nuts one day.
I still have lots of problems with DJT, but I guess I had more problems with the candidates the Dems put up in 2024.
Before you blast me for my views, let me just say that I'm glad DJT can't run for president again.
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ShiftyRider
Active member
They and Trump were trying to hang Mike Pence which is a bit of a negative. Holy crap what you wrote is extremely offensive.
I feel compelled to comment point by point vs. the broad brush "offensive" gut reaction. If we're going to have a dialogue here and not descend into a flame war, I believe this is necessary.
Jimk previously explained his 2024 vote for Trump, citing many of the reasons that I had posted earlier that it might happen. But it's OK to change your mind. There is no question that Trump 2.0 has been radically different from Trump 1.0. Has Trump done enough yet, particularly with regard to the civil service, to make Jimk regret that vote? If not, what other issues going forward would Jimk cite as important enough to change his mind in retrospect about the 2024 election?
Overall probably correct. But DJT can be delusional. He really wanted to go to the Capitol himself (forcibly prevented by the Secret Service) and still thought he had a chance to stop the certification.
I can buy that many of the people there were swept along by mob psychology. But there were some who really wanted to hang Mike Pence and might have injured or killed Romney or Pelosi if they had the chance. I sort of wish one of the legislators had been at least injured by the mob because then impeachment #2 might have succeeded and ended Trump's political future.
I 100% disagree and I really want a response to this. DJT's culpability, as laid out in gory detail by the Jan. 6 committee, was that he systematically tried to overthrow the 2020 election results by any means possible, legal or illegal. Jan. 6 was not the centerpiece but merely the last gasp of this effort.
I generally agree. It was DJT who
And who provides ample evidence to this day of that threat.
Jimk previously explained his 2024 vote for Trump, citing many of the reasons that I had posted earlier that it might happen. But it's OK to change your mind. There is no question that Trump 2.0 has been radically different from Trump 1.0. Has Trump done enough yet, particularly with regard to the civil service, to make Jimk regret that vote? If not, what other issues going forward would Jimk cite as important enough to change his mind in retrospect about the 2024 election?
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"Incited" ...is the word you are looking for.
A bit of an undersell. Jay walking is against the law. Sedition is punishable by up to 20 years. They intentionally disrupted the peaceful transfer of power.
Any thinking person knows this was all Trump, to reinforce his misinformation. He didn't give two shits about her as a person, he used her for propaganda purposes.
Any thinking person knows this was all Trump, to reinforce his misinformation. He didn't give two shits about their guilt or innocence, he used them for propaganda purposes.
100%
Kamala did have that obnoxious laugh.
I'm not against everything Trump does. I like selling weapons to NATO vs giving them to Ukraine. Makes sense on so many levels. We all want a secure border. Apparently the only way to do that is Trump? Dems are lame.
This forum is small, but the members are generally educated and insightful. I expect more than this from FTO. What are your primary sources of news? Try some BBC, AP or maybe Potus.
jimk
Well-known member
Oops, my rainy day post got me in trouble
Perhaps I spoke too bluntly? I don't want to shatter the nice cordiality of this forum. Truth is I'd love to share a few ski runs with any of you. I have found over the years that a common love of skiing helps moderate spicey chair lift conversations. I'm far from confrontational IRL. In fact, I enjoy civil discussions with folks of opposite persuasions because it's healthy and though it might not lead to conversions of beliefs, it at least broadens perspectives and builds respect.
Quick responses to fair questions:
Committees: Not that I want to be a DJT apologist, but Congressional committees/investigations are only as good as the people running them, and even then they take on a life of their own. Often there is an axe to grind that steers conclusions to a particular end. By the way, I like Liz Cheney and though it seems unlikely, would like to see her reemerge as an important GOP figure.
Would I change my vote: not really, not yet. I'm very conflicted about DJT, but I'm not conflicted about my aversion to elements of the Democratic platform. As crazy as all the tariff stuff is, it seems to be working in USA's favor? I thought DJT could get some resolution in Ukraine, but not so at this time. I support the idea of preventing a nuclear Iran. I'm actually rather liberal on immigration. Without immigrants the future of this country is toast. Gaza is a mess, but not DJT's fault.
Where I get my news: in this order and probably at a reading level of about 60-90 mins per day now that it's not ski season ; the websites of #1 Wash Post, #2 NY Times, #3 NY Post, #4 CNN, #5 USA Today. I consume very little tv or radio news, perhaps 30-60 mins per WEEK, from a variety of sources, but never watch or read Fox News. I do not watch very liberal tv news either.
Where you get your news might be an interesting side topic for this discussion/forum?
Perhaps I spoke too bluntly? I don't want to shatter the nice cordiality of this forum. Truth is I'd love to share a few ski runs with any of you. I have found over the years that a common love of skiing helps moderate spicey chair lift conversations. I'm far from confrontational IRL. In fact, I enjoy civil discussions with folks of opposite persuasions because it's healthy and though it might not lead to conversions of beliefs, it at least broadens perspectives and builds respect.
Quick responses to fair questions:
Committees: Not that I want to be a DJT apologist, but Congressional committees/investigations are only as good as the people running them, and even then they take on a life of their own. Often there is an axe to grind that steers conclusions to a particular end. By the way, I like Liz Cheney and though it seems unlikely, would like to see her reemerge as an important GOP figure.
Would I change my vote: not really, not yet. I'm very conflicted about DJT, but I'm not conflicted about my aversion to elements of the Democratic platform. As crazy as all the tariff stuff is, it seems to be working in USA's favor? I thought DJT could get some resolution in Ukraine, but not so at this time. I support the idea of preventing a nuclear Iran. I'm actually rather liberal on immigration. Without immigrants the future of this country is toast. Gaza is a mess, but not DJT's fault.
Where I get my news: in this order and probably at a reading level of about 60-90 mins per day now that it's not ski season
; the websites of #1 Wash Post, #2 NY Times, #3 NY Post, #4 CNN, #5 USA Today. I consume very little tv or radio news, perhaps 30-60 mins per WEEK, from a variety of sources, but never watch or read Fox News. I do not watch very liberal tv news either. Where you get your news might be an interesting side topic for this discussion/forum?
I appreciate your candor and wouldn't dare to do it if the group dynamics were reversed, e.g. being the lone dissenting voice amongst our former admin's coterie.
"Knuckleheads" sounds like they were a bunch of teenagers who toilet-papered a neighbor's tree.
Those are my three U.S. sources along with England's The Guardian and Germany's Der Spiegel. I've mentioned before agreeing with a fair number of the NYP's grievances -- most recently this one. It would've been great if the host had pointed out in real time that was a top reason she lost the election -- an inability to be honest/authentic through her never-ending non-answers. Good grief.
She's a bit right for my taste (by pre-2016 standards) but I'd vote for her, or any republican that stands behind the constitution. I wish she had run as an independent.
Democrats had a platform. R's chose not to have one for the first time ever, unless you count Project 2025.
Jury is out on tariffs. They have barely taken effect. If Trump sticks to them for 6 months, and we don't see a big rise in inflation or a drop in employment, then yea. Most recent employment numbers were weak, inflation is up but not by much. Funny that those weak employment numbers are a legit justification for dropping interest rates. Only problem is the numbers are fake, so I guess rates will have to stay where they are.
How do you feel about the termination of Erika McEntarfer?
I agree with the rest of it. Nuclear Iran, immigration, Gaza. Although I think Netanyahu feels enboldened to kill civilians because of the current admin's position on it.
Yes it will take time to reveal the effects. But Liz and I are highly skeptical. My father was staunch Republican and hers Democrat but both were trained in economics and would surely be very critical. Another point with Trump is his animus for Canada, which is mostly based upon financial failure of Trump-branded properties in Toronto and Vancouver. Is this any way to run foreign/economic policy? A case challenging the declaration of "economic emergency" tariffs on countries like Canada is slowly winding its way up the court system.
Ukraine is trending as I predicted. Trump takes it very personal when someone shows him up (see Canada above). Trump believes (correctly!) that he's offering Putin a great deal by letting him keep the 20% of Ukraine he has conquered and lifting sanctions for a ceasefire. Since Putin is blowing him off, Trump is offended and gradually turning against him.
I agree Iran is a positive so far, as is recognizing Syria. Netanyahu is suffering diplomatically from other countries if not yet from the US. But the unfettered presidential power in conducting foreign policy still makes me very nervous with someone as petty and mercurial as Trump in charge.
JimK is as yet unconcerned with the gradual degradation of rule of law even though the civil service firings part of that
should hit close to home.
It's clearly evident that almost no one who voted for Trump is yet concerned with due process in deportations, the majority of those being people with no criminal records who have been here a long time (some local bias here because that's the L.A. demographic).
Nor are they concerned yet with financial extortion of corporations like Paramount and universities. As far as big media and universities are concerned, I have been very critical of their political biases and cancel culture. But the only thing worse than censorship by media and academia is censorship by government.
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EMSC
Well-known member
They did? I don't recall anything from Kamala other than "Exact same as sleepy Joe but without the sleepiness". Not all that much of a platform IMO (especially when espoused in a typical word salad jumble).
Disagree. Trump repeatedly made various campaign promises as the months went along (lower taxes, no tax on tips, closing the border, no more US involved wars/isolationism, etc..., etc...). Whether they made any sense (or were likely to ever happen) or you liked them (or not) was a different matter, but he did state a lot of policies he wanted to push as President.
I note the mainstream media went off saying it was because the numbers were bad looking as to US employment under Trump. I'd argue it was because she headed a department that published really bad numbers. Eg If I worked for a large corporation and said "Oops my bad" I have to completely restate all the numbers I've been reporting to the Board and SEC for months because I and my team really screwed them up, well, I'd be fired the same day as well. I see the firing less about how US jobs numbers were/are than the enormous nature of the F$#k-ups in generating them for at least several months in a row. That team clearly needs to do a much better job. Not for Trump's sake, but for everyone's sake. Would we have a quarter point reduction in rates last week if the supposedly now accurate numbers had been published?
As far as theory goes perhaps. For practical impact on everyday lives, they are likely much closer to equal on most folks at today's current levels of biases (not same for all, but for most folks). That said, all three need to eliminate such biases to a significant extent from todays current state. However, I find it very doubtful that any of the 3 will change significantly in the next few years at least.
Presumably that means the fact that the May and June revised numbers were so far off from the original estimates, particularly if expressed as a percentage, which I think is misleading.
These numbers are routinely revised one and two months after the first estimate. The number revisions for March and May are a bit on the high side vs. the prior couple of years, but go back to 2020 and 2021 when the economy was volatile and you see several months with big revisions.
But Trump is pretty transparent. It's always about the narcissism, me, me, me! It wasn't just the May/June revisions. It was
In the link above the Sept. 2004 original estimate was right on its final revision. October was revised upward later. If you're trying to help the incumbent, wouldn't you put out rosy numbers that would have to be revised downward after the election?
So this is but another example of why this type of behavior is especially dangerous in government. If we can't trust officials to put out truthful information in fear of offending the king, that can be bad for our economy as well as democracy and national security decisions. And yes, the same argument is relevant to the cover-up of Biden's health in 2024.
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I'm trained in economics and I am skeptical too. If Trump actually follows through, there is no way to add that much drag without an effect.
If Trump was honest, he'd stop saying "billions are flowing in to the country" and change it to "billions are flowing from the middle class to the government."
ShiftyRider
Active member
Was there an FBI investigation of the Jan. 6 Capitol riot? Is it fair to say it was compromised in 2025? Problem is, criminals are the ones to gain when Justice disappears (ref Epstein, Maxwell)
What's up with using the military against US citizens? Imagine purity tests at DOD for something akin to the opposite of ethics and commitment to oath. Problem is, adversaries are the ones to gain when Defense disappears (ref Taiwan)
What's up with using the military against US citizens? Imagine purity tests at DOD for something akin to the opposite of ethics and commitment to oath. Problem is, adversaries are the ones to gain when Defense disappears (ref Taiwan)
Nearly all of the individual criminal acts during the Capitol riots were investigated and resolved. Over 1,500 of them pled guilty or were convicted but later pardoned by Trump. Any pending indictments were dismissed.
Ongoing court cases on that too. The Marines and over half the National Guard troops have been withdrawn from L.A. The 9th Circuit ruled yesterday that ICE arrests in SoCal must have "reasonable suspicion," which explicitly excludes "race, ethnicity, language, location or employment."
Heads up @Tony Crocker: hard-hitting non-woke journalism is coming your way! 
nypost.com
Start the presses! New York Post will expand to LA with launch of The California Post
The new publication will be headquartered in Los Angeles and feature a robust staff of editors, reporters and photographers dedicated to covering news, entertainment, politics, culture, sports and …
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Not too blunt, IMO you were clear.
Re cordiality, if you are going to defend Trump, you're going to trigger some people. There is no other candidate that can drive turnout, on both sides. In my lifetime it's not even close.
Maybe someone will come along who learns from it all, and moves us ahead.
At the border the numbers are way down. Did we change what we are doing or did immigrants just give up? Death by cartel seems better than facing Trumpism? It seems to me nothing is different, except the FEAR of Trump. Is fear the only way?
What was in that bi-partisan immigration bill that Trump shot down last year?
Powell's term is up in May 2026, so after that it will be Trumps' next appointee. But don't forget that Powell was appointed by Trump during his first term.