DFU Zone

[jamesdeluxe]

I couldn't find a specific thread on this topic (DFU is not searchable and "no fall" didn't turn up anything). Fascinating to read about people who proactively search out these places and how they deal with them on a turn-by-turn basis. Any opinions from the experts here?

One Slip and You’re Dead. What It’s Like to Ski the No Fall Zone.

Crash and you’re a goner—those are the stakes on slopes this steep. Ski mountaineer Christina Lustebenberger explains the mental and physical skills required to thrive in deadly terrain.

www.outsideonline.com

 

[jimk]

I don't ski no fall zones. I suppose I get near terrain like that at times, but I don't ski it. Utah has a few places that might qualify, especially in low tide conditions. But generally, most lines in and near resort-patrolled ski terrain can be navigated without risking life if tackled slowly and carefully. When I read about people dying while skiing extreme terrain it makes me sick to my stomach. I can't relate. Skiing for recreational purposed is meant to be fun.

I think extreme skiers are motivated by something beyond fun, such as prestige, testosterone, fame and fortune.
In Utah there are a lot of people that ski backcountry terrain and every year a few die in avalanches, often in areas that aren't that steep, just unstable. I'm kind of scared of the backcountry too in a snowy area like the Wasatch. Extreme skier Dan Egan had a line that went something like, the more you know, the more you need to be careful. Many of the people that die in the backcountry in Utah are described as longtime experts.

Here are a few fun photos of steep resort terrain, but I don't consider any of it "you fall, you die". It's all in-bounds and typically open to regular recreational skiers/boarders, but it can potentially be dangerous.

My son in Corbet's Couloir, Jackson Hole, WY

Again, Blackcomb Glacier, Whistler, Canada

Friend skiing North Chute, Snowbird, UT

Friends above some very steep stuff in Cathedral Cirque at Solitude, UT:

 

[Tony Crocker]

To refresh memories:
Andrew McLean, who should know as well as anyone, compiled this scale to rate difficulty of steep ski terrain:
Steepness Ratings 0-7 with +/- qualifiers
S0 Flat terrain. A golf course.
S1 Low angle - possibly poling in places.
S1+ Beginning terrain at a ski area. Safe run outs.
S2 25 degrees slopes. “Intermediate” terrain at a ski area.
S2+ Slopes at or near 25 degrees with some terrain features
S3- Slopes up to 30 degrees.
S3 Slopes up to 35 degrees. “Expert” runs at ski areas.
S3+ Slopes at or near 35 degrees with terrain features that require maneuvering
S4- Slopes 35-45 degrees with safe run outs and little to no terrain features
S4 Slopes 35-45 degrees with dangerous fall potential and terrain obstacles
S4+ Slopes just under 45 degrees that are continuous, have fall consequences and terrain obstacles
S5- Slopes that are continuously at or near 45 degrees or slightly over
S5 Slopes between 45-55 degrees. Falling est verboten.
S5+ Slopes at or around 55 degrees. You’d be lucky to live through a fall.
S6- Short sections that are steeper then 55 degrees, yet continuously above 50 degrees.
S6 Slopes continuously steeper than 55 degrees. Slow death from falling highly likely.
S6+ 55ish degree slopes with major obstacles - cliffs, trees, crevasses
S7 60 degree slopes. Just plain ol’ steep as hell.
S7+ 60 degree slopes with nasty obstacles. A quick and certain death if you fall.
S8 The future. Scary.

I don't ski no fall zones. I suppose I get near terrain like that at times, but I don't ski it.

At Snowbird you probably do, the usual traverse entry over Jaws into Great Scott being one example. Any skiing on High Baldy above the long cliff band skier's left of Eye of the Needle is another. At Whistler Extremely Canadian instructs in their clinics about traverses over cliff bands: keep your momentum going and don't stop; if you lose your balance or go too fast you will fall after you get past the danger zone.

My son in Corbet's Couloir, Jackson Hole, WY

Was he able to step down all the way to the snow surface without jumping? In that mode Liz skied Corbet's in 2004 before we met. I've never seen Corbet's without 10+ feet of mandatory air so I've never skied it.

In terms of the above table the DFU dividing line is roughly between 4- and 4. Often that is determined by snow conditions. In early season dangerous obstacles exist that are buried mid-season. The other danger factor is refrozen snow which means you won't stop if you fall. My scariest run ever was probably the upper half of Big Couloir at Big Sky (reputed average 43 degrees) which had been in March sun all morning but my reservation to ski it was at 2:30PM after it had gone into shade and refrozen. The lower 2,500 vertical of La Vaute at La Grave was only 30 degrees but since it was all frozen granular it was definitely DFU.

The other factor with DFU terrain is that in North American lift service 40+ degree pitch is usually only for the top 300 vertical or so (Mammoth has several of these) with wide open safe runouts. But when you are have 40+ for sustained vertical like Main/Little Chutes at Alta or Big Couloir (note the word continuous in the 4+ and 5- descriptions above), the perspective is very different and DFU is obvious.

ChrisC might provide a list of interesting sustained 40+ lines he has skied in the Alps. The longest ones I've skied are probably the two (Eduardo's and Errare Humane) in Las Lenas.

I understand the attraction of skiing at the limits of your personal ski capabilities. It is exhilarating and a key attraction of the sport to me, but one that discretion tells me to leave behind at my current age.

 

[berkshireskier]

To refresh memories:
Andrew McLean, who should know as well as anyone, compiled this scale to rate difficulty of steep ski terrain:
Steepness Ratings 0-7 with +/- qualifiers
S0 Flat terrain. A golf course.
S1 Low angle - possibly poling in places.
S1+ Beginning terrain at a ski area. Safe run outs.
S2 25 degrees slopes. “Intermediate” terrain at a ski area.
S2+ Slopes at or near 25 degrees with some terrain features
S3- Slopes up to 30 degrees.
S3 Slopes up to 35 degrees. “Expert” runs at ski areas.
S3+ Slopes at or near 35 degrees with terrain features that require maneuvering
S4- Slopes 35-45 degrees with safe run outs and little to no terrain features
S4 Slopes 35-45 degrees with dangerous fall potential and terrain obstacles
S4+ Slopes just under 45 degrees that are continuous, have fall consequences and terrain obstacles
S5- Slopes that are continuously at or near 45 degrees or slightly over
S5 Slopes between 45-55 degrees. Falling est verboten.
S5+ Slopes at or around 55 degrees. You’d be lucky to live through a fall.
S6- Short sections that are steeper then 55 degrees, yet continuously above 50 degrees.
S6 Slopes continuously steeper than 55 degrees. Slow death from falling highly likely.
S6+ 55ish degree slopes with major obstacles - cliffs, trees, crevasses
S7 60 degree slopes. Just plain ol’ steep as hell.
S7+ 60 degree slopes with nasty obstacles. A quick and certain death if you fall.
S8 The future. Scary.


At Snowbird you probably do, the usual traverse entry over Jaws into Great Scott being one example. Any skiing on High Baldy above the long cliff band skier's left of Eye of the Needle is another. At Whistler Extremely Canadian instructs in their clinics about traverses over cliff bands: keep your momentum going and don't stop; if you lose your balance or go too fast you will fall after you get past the danger zone.

Was he able to step down all the way to the snow surface without jumping? In that mode Liz skied Corbet's in 2004 before we met. I've never seen Corbet's without 10+ feet of mandatory air so I've never skied it.

In terms of the above table the DFU dividing line is roughly between 4- and 4. Often that is determined by snow conditions. In early season dangerous obstacles exist that are buried mid-season. The other danger factor is refrozen snow which means you won't stop if you fall. My scariest run ever was probably the upper half of Big Couloir at Big Sky (reputed average 43 degrees) which had been in March sun all morning but my reservation to ski it was at 2:30PM after it had gone into shade and refrozen. The lower 2,500 vertical of La Vaute at La Grave was only 30 degrees but since it was all frozen granular it was definitely DFU.

The other factor with DFU terrain is that in North American lift service 40+ degree pitch is usually only for the top 300 vertical or so (Mammoth has several of these) with wide open safe runouts. But when you are have 40+ for sustained vertical like Main/Little Chutes at Alta or Big Couloir (note the word continuous in the 4+ and 5- descriptions above), the perspective is very different and DFU is obvious.

ChrisC might provide a list of interesting sustained 40+ lines he has skied in the Alps. The longest ones I've skied are probably the two (Eduardo's and Errare Humane) in Las Lenas.

I understand the attraction of skiing at the limits of your personal ski capabilities. It is exhilarating and a key attraction of the sport to me, but one that discretion tells me to leave behind at my current age.

I had a classmate in high school who was skiing the Big Couloir at Big Sky several years ago (he may have been in his 50's at the time) and he took a bad fall. Ended up in the hospital for 3 or 4 months, with all sorts of broken bones and other medical problems (and he's an MD). I believe he has never skied again after that accident. When you watch some of these extreme ski videos and the lines that some of these so-called extreme skiers go down (whether in Alaska, the Alps, backcountry US, etc), it is absolutely crazy (IMHO) the risks they take with their lives and well being. As we know, the list of extreme skiers who have died early in ski accidents is quite long (see Doug Coombs, et al, eg). A friend of ours in NYC, who's an avid skier, was the producer on a documentary that she and some others made, simply called "Steep", about the extreme skiers. I believe you can find it on Netflix or Amazon Prime or one of the streaming channels.

 

[Tony Crocker]

A friend of ours in NYC, who's an avid skier, was the producer on a documentary that she and some others made, simply called "Steep", about the extreme skiers.

I remember seeing that movie when it came out, November 2007, not too long before my Extremely Canadian week in La Grave March 2008. Doug Coombs' car was still in La Grave's parking lot then.

 

[jimk]

Was he able to step down all the way to the snow surface without jumping? In that mode Liz skied Corbet's in 2004 before we met. I've never seen Corbet's without 10+ feet of mandatory air so I've never skied it.

My son did the side stepping in that photo of Corbet's for a short distance and then had to jump approx 6 feet to the snow surface below. He's done that run 3 or 4 times. I witnessed him a couple times and said a just before he dropped-in the first time.

 

[EMSC]

That's a very weird (to me) pic of Corbets. It makes it look like there is no cliff face to be run into to the skiers right - almost looks like a big open bowl to drop into.

I always say the first turn is easy (the left footer as you drop in from where jimk's son is). It's the 2nd turn that'll get ya, as you suddenly race across with tons of speed heading straight toward the huge cliffs on skiers right/lookers left. Easy peasy skiing from that point though.

I did watch someone do S&S with the truly huge drop in once. It was ~2 feet of pow that day though.

 

[jimk]

The crazy thing about those Kings and Queens competitions they do at JH is that those people fly by the dangerous part and land in the "runout". Maybe they are on to something.

 

[Tony Crocker]

those people fly by the dangerous part

Back in the early 1990's (1992 and1993 were both excellent seasons) Scot Schmidt visited Baldy. By lunchtime he had sized up Garry Klassen as an expert knowledgeable local and they skied the afternoon together. Scot explained to Garry that taking air was a means to bypass obstacles and ski a more fluid line. This particular skill is one that I never had.