Great report and pix, especially the colors and lighting in this shot. You can't fake that northeastern flava.I could be at Alta faster than I could get to McCauley (when I lived in NJ), but I chose to go to McCauley.
Actuarial projections
Eastern Molehills and Retro Areas
- Thread starter ChrisC
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Similar low key, local-centric ambience as upstate NY, except on real mountains.
Big Sky is the only exception to the above. Similarly Idaho excepting Sun Valley, and also eastern Washington. James, ChrisC and I have all had one week trips into this region with TRs posted on FTO.
That is the scenario where a lengthy recreational trip by yourself can really get you in trouble. From 1997 - 2004, mine were only a week at a time and my ex bitched about all of them.
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I'd say close to zero lake effect in that location. Mount Washington is a unique microclimate. I wonder how they can even measure snowfall when most of it arrives horizontally.
Does anyone know how much snow falls on the western side of the Adirondacks once they have some real elevation? Those are the only mountains close enough to a Great Lake with decent orographic uplift.
jasoncapecod
Well-known member
The Adirondacks are rarely affected by lake affect snow due to the orientation of the lakes
The spine of the green mountains will receive orographic snows on a West wind and obviously Jay is the king of orographic snow on the north wind
Tug hill makes out on a west southwest wind.
McCaulay does well on this wind too, and I guess that’s considered the Adirondacks
The spine of the green mountains will receive orographic snows on a West wind and obviously Jay is the king of orographic snow on the north wind
Tug hill makes out on a west southwest wind.
McCaulay does well on this wind too, and I guess that’s considered the Adirondacks
I needed to go on Google Earth to check some geography in detail.
If you draw a line due east from Toronto, it passes over 150 miles of Lake Ontario, then over Snow Ridge and McCauley 45-60 miles later.
If you draw a line WSW-ENE from Hamilton, it passes over 185 miles of Lake Ontario (maximum fetch) to Watertown, and the high Adirondacks over 4,000 feet are 100 miles later on that line. Big Tupper ski area is just west of the high peaks with elevation range 2,000 - 3,000.
Anyone know how much snow Big Tupper gets? Based on local comments above I would conclude that either:
1) The due west-to-east winds are much more frequent than WSW-ENE, or more likely,
2) Lake effect snow is common 50 miles downwind from Lake Ontario but not so much 100 miles downwind.
A scan of the capital of "lake effect," Japan, reinforces theory #2 above. Niseko is less than 15 miles from the Sea of Japan. Almost all of the noted powder areas are within 50 miles of the Sea of Japan with at least 3,000 feet of orographic uplift, and the places 15 miles inland get more snow than the ones 50 miles inland.
Then you have Mt. Bohemia, which sits on a peninsula 5 miles from Lake Superior, with exposure over 80-130 miles of water to the west, north and east.
If you draw a line due east from Toronto, it passes over 150 miles of Lake Ontario, then over Snow Ridge and McCauley 45-60 miles later.
If you draw a line WSW-ENE from Hamilton, it passes over 185 miles of Lake Ontario (maximum fetch) to Watertown, and the high Adirondacks over 4,000 feet are 100 miles later on that line. Big Tupper ski area is just west of the high peaks with elevation range 2,000 - 3,000.
Anyone know how much snow Big Tupper gets? Based on local comments above I would conclude that either:
1) The due west-to-east winds are much more frequent than WSW-ENE, or more likely,
2) Lake effect snow is common 50 miles downwind from Lake Ontario but not so much 100 miles downwind.
A scan of the capital of "lake effect," Japan, reinforces theory #2 above. Niseko is less than 15 miles from the Sea of Japan. Almost all of the noted powder areas are within 50 miles of the Sea of Japan with at least 3,000 feet of orographic uplift, and the places 15 miles inland get more snow than the ones 50 miles inland.
Then you have Mt. Bohemia, which sits on a peninsula 5 miles from Lake Superior, with exposure over 80-130 miles of water to the west, north and east.
So I'll say the Adirondacks are rarely affected by lake affect snow because they are not close enough to Lake Ontario. This would not have occurred to me without looking it up on Google Earth.
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Really depends on the relationship. My husband of almost 35 years is a non-skier for assorted reasons. I retired early to be a more relaxed older parent and to have time to spend with my parents, who were over 75 by then. My father was a professor who would travel and work internationally every few years. He would be gone for 3+ months. They were married for over 60 years.
I'm averaging over 50 days a season these days, with most at big mountains out west based on doing multiple trips from Dec-Apr. Most of the trips I travel and ski with retired friends. I know plenty of women over 50 who live in the east, have husbands who don't ski, and ski both locally and on trips that involve flying west or to Europe. Also ski with younger women who work full-time and are married to partners who don't ski.
I enjoy exploring small ski hills as much as destination resorts. It's part of the fun of skiing for me. I even stop by ski hills or resorts during the off-season. I can get a sense of the vibe simply walking around the base. Or noting whether or not the parking lots are paved. During the Idaho ski safari last March, we stopped at Soldier Mountain driving between Sun Valley and Tamarack. Didn't know it would be the day that Glen Plake was there. We saw his van in the parking lot, but not him.
What's different between myself and @Harvey is that I like to travel, whether driving or flying. If I only cared about powder turns, I wouldn't have bothered with ski safaris in New England, New York, or Michigan in the last decade. Planning to use Indy in the northeast next March, partially because a friend is interested to join me to check out Jay and a few other places.
jasoncapecod
Well-known member
The energy from Lake effect band holds together for a couple hundred miles. The example is Plattekill gets lake effect from Lake Ontario.
I’m just guessing the distance from Lake Ontario to Platte
I would suggest that Plattekill gets more snow than Hunter from being on the windward rather than leeward side of the Catskills. With no high mountains west or northwest of the Catskills, Plattekill should get something from orographic uplift in many weather disturbances.
I'll ask again about Big Tupper. Plattekill in addition to being farther from Lake Ontario has a shorter fetch across the lake
I'll ask again about Big Tupper. Plattekill in addition to being farther from Lake Ontario has a shorter fetch across the lake
For some reason, I recall a Catskills-like number of 130 inches for Big Tupper. @jasoncapecod, can you confirm?
West Virginia can get lake effect snow. More likely at the three ski hills in northern WV: Canaan Valley, Timberline, and White Grass (nordic trails).
A really big push can mean natural snow NC and TN, but that's pretty rare. The ski resorts are happy enough with cold temps for snowmaking coming down from the Arctic.
jasoncapecod
Well-known member
That seems like a reasonable number. The Dacks just don't get big snow amounts.
Big Tupper is on the western edge of the ADKs and is not in line for any appreciable lake effect.
Imagine the top-shelf northeastern ski region that would result if the Dacks were 50 miles to the west. As my father used to say: if "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, what a Xmas this would be!
jasoncapecod
Well-known member
They could have been a contender....
You mean they coulda been a contendah!
EMSC
Well-known member
Interesting. I was always told: "If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts it'd be christmas every day!"
I'm partial to my father's version. The ending has a certain poetry.