if this were snow!

[Skidog]

...there's not much exposed terrain, open bowls, etc.

hello, um, mcfly, how bout the presidentials, plenty of bowls and terrain so steep that snow won't even stick to it, up to 4,400 vert of skiing in any conditions you can dream of.

And eastern skiers should be willing to concede that the west has steeper terrain and better powder.

concede, never. the west certainly has more steep terrain but, steeper? how steep do ya need? 55 degrees skis well in good conditions but, turn shape and quality can suffer on anything steeper we got plenty of steep in the high country. chic chocs? forgetaboutit, sick!. powder? the west may have more at times but, powder is powder, a foot here or there, what's the dif?

i fully agree with most of the things you mentioned and glad you got to spend some time out here.

this terrain, east vs west thing is insane. apples and oranges. you can't compare the two thoroughly cuz they're different in many ways.

why do ya think the hot shots out west ski on 200's that are as wide as a staging plank? cuz it's wide open and wheeee! unless their skiing straight forward couloirs or hucking their carcasses off of cliffs, skiing isn't nearly as technical and technique not nearly as important out west.
heck, short swings are a lost art out there from what i've seen. ask most western skiers about brook bed skiing, reply "huh".

i didn't move back east cuz i didn't like the skiing out there. i moved back and live here now cuz my skiing techniques suffered and got lazy out there. felt like a few tools had been lost out of my bag. that's why when i go out west now i call it "a ski vacation". a vacation from my vacation.

well, it'll be nice i guess to go out west next week and roll along from edge to edge without a thought through the wide open spaces looking up and around at the snowcapped peaks that look just like all the other snowcapped peaks, east, west, europe etc all around me takin it easy on the nomads in migration mode. lookin forward to the easy skiing so i can back home to the real skiing that skiing out west will make me appreciate even more. excited to leave, can't wait to come back.

ski the east
rog

Hmmm the places I ski at Alta arent very "wide open"

I agree though that you can't compare. Each has its good qualities..

I have always maintained that if you grew up skiing the east coast you're more than likely a better skier than someone who was raised skiing in the west. Eastern skiers can cope in varying conditions that most westerners have never seen much less skied..the tight eastern trees, the "blue" ice, man made glop and death cookies, etc..If you skied your entire life in the east and never experienced waist deep pow (no matter what you say ICE this IS A RARITY in the east and happens regularly in the west) its easy to pick it up. If you never skied "blue" ice because you grew up in skiing the west, well this my friend is not such an easy skill to pick up.

All I can say is that each place east and west has its merits. I might still live in the east if there were enough jobs in the Whites...we were VERY close to purchasing there. I wanted to MAXIMIZE ski time.. SLC was the obvious choice. IMHO.

Carry on.

M

 

[Tony Crocker]

hello, um, mcfly, how bout the presidentials, plenty of bowls and terrain so steep that snow won't even stick to it, up to 4,400 vert of skiing in any conditions you can dream of.

I'm not sure you want to go there. If backcountry is in the discussion, do we get to mention the turns-all-year.com people on the Cascade volcanoes? Or mapadu on Colorado 14ers in July? Or the Chugach? Or sidecountry runs like this:

I have always maintained that if you grew up skiing the east coast you're more than likely a better skier than someone who was raised skiing in the west.

That may depend upon where in the West. The Northwest skiers get the full range of variable snow conditions, plus the steeps, plus the big powder dumps. Ski a day at Baker or Crystal and I suspect you'll see a higher average ability level than Stowe or even MRG.

 

[VT108]

That may depend upon where in the West. The Northwest skiers get the full range of variable snow conditions, plus the steeps, plus the big powder dumps. Ski a day at Baker or Crystal and I suspect you'll see a higher average ability level than Stowe or even MRG.

This back and forth could go on forever. I see only one possible solution, assemble two teams comprised of members hailing from geographically strategic locations in both Eastern and Western North America, and compete in various disciplines on a circuit style tour in a neutral region... Say, the Midwest? With Midwestern Judges, or all Russian Judges.

We could do freestyle, downhill, slalom, slopestyle, half-pipe, powder 8, randonee, and big-mountain freeskiing (I'm still working on how we could do that in the Midwest...) The results will forever determine which place breeds the best skiers.

I'll volunteer to ski for Stowe, VT, as I don't feel I've been in the Cascades long enough to really represent. Who else is in?

 

[Patrick]

I have always maintained that if you grew up skiing the east coast you're more than likely a better skier than someone who was raised skiing in the west.

That may depend upon where in the West. The Northwest skiers get the full range of variable snow conditions, plus the steeps, plus the big powder dumps. Ski a day at Baker or Crystal and I suspect you'll see a higher average ability level than Stowe or even MRG.

I don't think you want to go there either. :wink: Okay, might be some gapers that can afford Stowe. :lol:

This is another classic from the vault from back in December 2006, entitled Killington information- in case anyone cares. A fun case where one FTO user gets pile apon and still refuses to see that his might been mistaken in his opinions. (almost sounds like US Politics :wink: ). The subject, Eastern Spring Snow surfaces. Sorry Tony, needed to get the heavy artillery.

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... php?t=2350

First counter point.

3) Spring skiing on groomed trails in the East is often quite unpleasant IMHO. With isothermic snow and relatively flat pitch your skis "stick" in the snow and gravity is not strong enough to overcome it. Skier compacted moguls are the most enjoyable type of skiing in those conditions. So grooming Superstar in the spring seems counterproductive to me and could attract less business than before.

Tony: You're showing your ignorance here, too.
Manmade snow turns into gigantic corn crystals in the late spring. You can knock the moguls down and the skiing surface is quite good. You don't stick at all since it's corn, not western superglue. Depending on how deep it is, you often have to ski it like you'd ski cut-up powder. Superstar with volkswagen-sized moguls in May isn't enjoyable for many people. They'd actually get far more skier visits if they 50% groomed the trail.

Second and Third counter points.

I will dispute the point on spring skiing as I suspect I have done more of it at wider variety of areas than Geoff.

Don't bet the farm on that one.

I also have quite a few hundred days spring skiing at Killington on manmade. ...and that's what we were talking about. I imagine Tony has exactly... err... zero experience with that particular surface. Spring skiing on manmade is usually a very fast surface.

And a Fourth.

Late April at Killington was like 4th of July at Mammoth, except that Mammoth had far more variety of terrain open.

Snow in late April in the East isn't at all the same has the snow I experienced at Mammoth.

Manmade snow texture is totally difference and isn't close to be as grabby as what we had at Mammoth.

Five and Six..

I strongly disagree with Patrick's contention about manmade snow. It's much heavier.

I strongly agree with Patrick's position. Manmade corns up differently due to the dramatically different crystal structure..

I'm with admin and patrick on this one...

Number Seven.

I'm with admin and patrick on this one...

Sorry Tony, gonna pile on with the other Easterners on this one.(...)Natural snow is MUCH grabbier in spring than manmade.

OVER AND OUT!!! :wink:

 

[Marc_C]

Folks might want to go back to the first page or two of this thread and re-read what we were actually talking about, which has nothing to do with:

* backcountry
* Eastern spring skiing
* average skiers (we did mention average conditions)
* eastern skier vs western skier skill sets
* open bowls vs glades

...or any of the other side issues brought up by folks more interested in spraying than staying anywhere remotely on topic.

 

[Patrick]

...or any of the other side issues brought up by folks more interested in spraying than staying anywhere remotely on topic.

Here is another one from the vault waaaayyyy to back in 2003.

Marc, you weren't around when this TR on late May at
Killington(link). I can assure you that out of the 139 replies, maybe 132 are off-topic. :lol:

This thread is part of the Hall of Fame, as this one has become.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I'm the only one here who occasionally splits threads to keep them on topic. This one's too far gone already.

With regard to Patrick and the spring skiing thread, I did ski Killington in 50+ degree weather on April 29, 1990. The mogul skiing was good. The groomers were worse superglue that I've ever seen at Mammoth in June/July.

For the true effortless corn you need an overnight freeze and a rapid morning warmup in temperatures. Altitude and low humidity (both in short supply in the East) are best conducive to the needed wide temperature range. Patrick saw a good example of this at Portillo.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Ski a day at Baker or Crystal and I suspect you'll see a higher average ability level than Stowe or even MRG.

I knew that was a slippery statement. I avoided mentioning destination areas because traveling skiers self select places like Jackson and Squaw to such a strong degree. All areas are "self-selected" if you take the term literally, but day areas are at least confined to "local skiers." MRG's average ski ability may be as high as I've seen anywhere, but its distinctive nature might result in self selection as strong as at Jackson. I nonetheless have a strong overall impression of average ski ability in the Northwest, observable even at supposedly intermediate mountains like Mt. Bachelor.

 

[Patrick]

I'm the only one here who occasionally splits threads to keep them on topic. This one's too far gone already.

With regard to Patrick and the spring skiing thread.

:lol: :lol: :lol: [-X

You're not going to get this one started again. Everyone disagreed with you on that point.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Everyone disagreed with you on that point.

That doesn't make them right. Especially if they have never skied Bachelor/Mammoth/Andes corn at its finest. I'll bet the Alps have their moments in spring too.

 

[Patrick]

Everyone disagreed with you on that point.

That doesn't make them right. Especially if they have never skied Bachelor/Mammoth/Andes corn at its finest. I'll bet the Alps have their moments in spring too.

That wasn't what the argument was about...you comments were that Eastern Spring surfaces were like glue/not fast. Re-read the other discussion, I don't want to start this one again all over here.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Obviously my sample size of eastern spring skiing is small, the day at Killington in 1990 and 3 days of the March 2003 trip. In both cases it seemed like later-in-the-spring western skiing with snow not frozen overnight.

Same characteristics: Steeper is better, grooming or skier packing on the ungroomed helps, moguls are good, flats are deadly.

Juncalillo at Portillo from about 11AM to noon was what I mean by effortless groomer corn. Some of the low density off-piste near the lake there was pretty good too.

 

[Patrick]

Not starting...

Obviously my sample size of eastern spring...

One of the great things about some forums is that you get to see some clips that some people will never be convince that they might be wrong. :wink:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hA7oePd1B2M&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hA7oePd1B2M&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KmuTef5wVho&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KmuTef5wVho&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

:lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:

 

[rfarren]

HAHAHA.....
I've really become an addict to this website!!!

 

[icelanticskier]

me too!
thanx for all of those who've been pissing off significant others, blowing off time at work, getting pc vision and tuning out to check out this thread. marc c, you actually threw in a little rhyme in your last post, dig it! tony you are wrong and always will be wrong about right coast skiing. your whole take on corn skiing, the where and whats is pathetic. nice picture-more snow down a mountain, big deal. not impressed at all.
admin, don't know if i'll be at on snow at snowbasin yet-depends on the snow.
patrick,i love you
rog

 

[icelanticskier]

just foolin tony, i love you too!
rog