J.Spin
New member
Tony Crocker":31tcw5i0 said:
I used the term “isolation” since I’ve heard that used to describe Jay Peak’s setting before, but after really looking at its position on the map, perhaps “exposure” (to wind) is a better choice. It’s clear from the topographic map showing the Green Mountain spine that Jay Peak isn’t some sort of isolated peak like a volcano, it’s indeed part of the wall of the Greens:
You’re right that we can’t have it both ways with regard to inclusion in the spine and isolation, but I guess it’s possible that Jay Peak has some favorable combination of inclusion in the spine along with that wind exposure Powderfreak spoke of with respect to decent orographics from multiple directions.
The Mont Sutton snowfall issue is interesting. I think the general feeling most people have around here in ski country is that annual snowfall steadily increases right up the Green Mountain spine in Vermont from south to north, peaks in the Northern Greens around the international border at Jay Peak, and then begins to fall off again as you head farther northward into the Canadian Green Mountains of the Eastern Townships. It’s funny, I’ve only skied the Eastern Townships once, but that snapshot of experience was exactly in line with the snowfall trend I just mentioned. Mont Sutton in the south near Jay Peak had by far the best snow, then I’d say Owl’s Head fell in somewhere behind it, and finally Mont Orford to the north had the least snow/poorest conditions. Mont Orford has some very challenging Jay Peak-style terrain, but of course relative to the somewhat tamer terrain at Mont Sutton, that only served to exaggerate the difference in snow quantity/quality. If indeed the annual snowfall at Mont Orford is half of what Jay Peak gets, it must be hard for them to get great coverage on a lot of the steep, natural terrain that’s available. Mont Orford may have slightly better preservation than Jay Peak since they have a bit more latitude, but that really doesn’t matter if you never get enough snow to get the off piste surfaces well covered to begin with. Snow quality will typically trump more aggressive terrain for me, so of the Eastern Townships areas that I’ve skied, Mont Sutton would definitely be the first one I’d want to visit again.* Clearly James experienced decent coverage at Mont Orford on his 2010 trip, but from what I witnessed, and the annual snowfall numbers they provide, I wonder how often the snow gets to that stage. After my trip to Mont Orford I was left with the impression that most of the time in the off piste it would be an experience of picking your way through minefields of debris due to poor coverage.
So with Mont Sutton only about 10 miles north of Jay Peak, why does the annual snowfall apparently drop off so sharply? I don’t know too much about the overall topography there, but I went to Google Earth and looked at the profile of the Mont Sutton-Jay Peak area from the all-important northwest direction. The Mont Sutton area, peaking with 3,156’ Sommet Rond, is on the left, the Jay Peak area with Jay Peak at 3,858’ is on the right, and the yellow line is the international border:
I assume some orographics/snowfall are lost due to the ~700’ of vertical that the Mont Sutton area is giving up compared to Jay Peak, but it’s hard to say why the snowfall would drop off so much north of the international border. I guess the immediate Mont Sutton area might have a bit less expansive relief facing the northwest. Also, although it wasn’t evident in that topographic map I posted earlier because it’s cut off in the north, looking at an expansion of the map of the Canadian Green Mountains on Peakbagger.com:
…the amount of relief is certainly falling off pretty quickly north of the Mont Sutton. Even more notable though is how much the width/girth of the range diminishes north of the border. Perhaps that overall area is simply a less effective “wall” for moisture – it certainly looks like it on that map relative to the expansive area south of the border in the Northern Greens down through Bolton. The general orientation of the range in the Mont Sutton area looks good with respect to a northwest wind though, even if the trails themselves face north and are lined up along an east-west ridge as Admin mentioned. Maybe the fact that their terrain faces north instead of a more leeward, easterly direction, plays a role in what they record for snow totals, but that could depend on where they make their snowfall measurements.
At what elevation is the snowfall measured for Mont Sutton? If it’s near the base, then I guess that could also account for a lot of the difference relative to Jay Peak, but if it’s up near 3,000’ then I guess that’s just the way it is, and it’s hard to argue with the fact that there is simply a huge difference in snowfall over the course of those 10 miles. Even if we can’t figure out why Mont Sutton gets so much less snow than Jay Peak, I’d argue that Mother Nature is taking every single factor into account; we just may not be aware of everything.
*This is only peripherally related, but it does concern the relatively high snowfall and snow quality at Mont Sutton. I noticed the quote from James’ February 2010 Sutton trip report: “…if you're ever in the area with snow coming down hard, stop at Sutton... on a day like this, it's nirvana.” That comment struck a chord because we experienced some of that during our 2001 trip; we found our way to the western end of the resort’s terrain and discovered acres and acres of untracked powder in the trees – then it snowed hard, dropped a quick inch, and brought things up another notch on piste as well. That inch was probably so welcomed simply because we’d experienced such blasé conditions the previous day at Mont Orford, but even without that, the conditions and coverage were simply better. It was yet another snapshot of what appears to be a common theme in snowfall between the two resorts. Even though the annual snowfall falls off somewhat at Mont Sutton compared to Jay Peak, Mont Sutton still appears to be in an area that can get in on some of the “extra” snow that sets its conditions apart from neighboring areas to the north.
, I've always done very well there.
