Killington Bond Passes, ASC and Powdr Corp
- Thread starter Tony Crocker
- Start date
JimG.
New member
We shall see when the snow flies.
And I think joegm is reading a little too much into what I'm saying...I'm not going to be going to K more this coming season; I rarely go more than twice a season lately (since 2000) and don't plan on going more.
But I will go once this coming season in Feb to check it out. But if POWDR is successful making it Okemo-like, it's of no interest to me as a skier.
I just like dissecting what's going on and trying to figure what POWDR is up to.
And I think joegm is reading a little too much into what I'm saying...I'm not going to be going to K more this coming season; I rarely go more than twice a season lately (since 2000) and don't plan on going more.
But I will go once this coming season in Feb to check it out. But if POWDR is successful making it Okemo-like, it's of no interest to me as a skier.
I just like dissecting what's going on and trying to figure what POWDR is up to.
Back from the dead:
http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20 ... /707069887
http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20 ... /707069887
Geoff
New member
The court ruling is no particular surprise. The argument by the plaintiffs is that it was only a 'paper' asset sale. Same business. Same employees. Same business name. There is a precedent with asbestos and toxic waste issues where paper sales to avoid a liability have been voided. A judge in Vermont ain't eggactly a legal scholar. I figure there's some outside chance this could swing the other way on appeal. If you want to point fingers in this, point fingers at Montpelier. They rewrote the lease without ever considering that the whole corporate shell game was to avoid some corporate liabilities of Killington, LTD and Sherburne Corp.
I still stand by my inital comments in this thread from 2007. POWDR had the chance to take Killington out of the discount business and get back to their core market. Unfortunately, they had no understanding at all of their core market. They alienated their core share house season pass base and that rippled through the rest of their business since season pass holders have such a big multplier on day ticket sales. It's both direct with friends & family as house guests and indirect since that season pass base was always Killington's huge unpaid marketing force down in the flatlands. The results are predictable. Killington refuses to announce skier visit totals but the state has a traffic counter on the Access Road and publishes town sales, meals, lodging, and alcohol sales data. Business is off by 1/3. Statewide, skier visits have remained fairly constant so this is a straight loss of market share to other ski areas.
As a season pass holder, it's kind of nice that they chased 1/3 of the people away. I can get a seat in the base lodge and at the bar on what used to be crowded weekends. Other than the gondolas, there's really no such thing as a lift line. When there's enough natural snow to spread out the people, it's not crowded on the hill. Other than the annoyance that they don't spin the lifts in the spring when they still have snow, I don't have a huge problem with it. As a property owner, I'm less pleased. They spent zero on marketing. In particular, their midweek businness is a disaster. If you own a condo, the value is based on the rental income it can command. With zero midweek rentals, the housing market collapsed. If I were the Texas E2M Ventures guys who dragged POWDR into my real estate deal to operate the ski area, I'd be less than pleased that there's 0% chance of developing real estate when the existing condo stock is going for less than replacement value.
I still stand by my inital comments in this thread from 2007. POWDR had the chance to take Killington out of the discount business and get back to their core market. Unfortunately, they had no understanding at all of their core market. They alienated their core share house season pass base and that rippled through the rest of their business since season pass holders have such a big multplier on day ticket sales. It's both direct with friends & family as house guests and indirect since that season pass base was always Killington's huge unpaid marketing force down in the flatlands. The results are predictable. Killington refuses to announce skier visit totals but the state has a traffic counter on the Access Road and publishes town sales, meals, lodging, and alcohol sales data. Business is off by 1/3. Statewide, skier visits have remained fairly constant so this is a straight loss of market share to other ski areas.
As a season pass holder, it's kind of nice that they chased 1/3 of the people away. I can get a seat in the base lodge and at the bar on what used to be crowded weekends. Other than the gondolas, there's really no such thing as a lift line. When there's enough natural snow to spread out the people, it's not crowded on the hill. Other than the annoyance that they don't spin the lifts in the spring when they still have snow, I don't have a huge problem with it. As a property owner, I'm less pleased. They spent zero on marketing. In particular, their midweek businness is a disaster. If you own a condo, the value is based on the rental income it can command. With zero midweek rentals, the housing market collapsed. If I were the Texas E2M Ventures guys who dragged POWDR into my real estate deal to operate the ski area, I'd be less than pleased that there's 0% chance of developing real estate when the existing condo stock is going for less than replacement value.
Mike Bernstein
New member
But Geoff, by my read of the purchase agreement, there were a few other odds and ends that ASC retained in the asset sale. IIRC, certain environmental obligations and a few other bits and pieces. The lifetime pass obligation was the biggest thing for sure, but not the only thing. And I a Federal judge in any jurisdiction shouldn't matter. She's got an impressive track record. I'd be surprised if this case is ever given a serious hearing again.Geoff":1ztf9ipo said: