November 2009 = pathetic

[Patrick]

This is a variation of the following threads:

Tremblant not opening this weekend
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8318

Turkey and Turns Not Looking Likely in NE
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8287

Well, last weekend of November is coming up. As I'm sitting here and looking outside and around, I can only say that I don't recall ever seeing such a late general opening to the ski season.

Here is a rundown of what to expect this weekend as liftserved skiing goes.

In Quebec?

Tremblant and Ste-Anne have both pushed back their opening for DECEMBER 5th. Second time MSA has pushed back their opening. I don't recall ever having both these areas not only before December. Did it ever happen?

Stoneham is now schedule to open on the evening of December 4th.

St-Sauveur is the only game in town and is running on bare snow with only mid-mountain skiing. Never though that was possible before this season. :shock:

In New England?

Sunday River ME still has T2B on 4 trails, it's actually 2 different trails on top to the mid then 1 trail on to the bottom. Looks like the best option in the East right now.

Bretton Woods NH, one trail for now.

Kmart and Bush hoping for this weekend. Kmart site mentioned that they should open by Sunday or maybe sooner. :roll:

Any others?

Oh yeah, snow is forecast...possibly enough to hike for turns, good october skiing less than one week from December. 8-[

 

[icelanticskier]

well, i guess october made up for november. i've never skied as many days in the last 8 years as i have this year and it wasn't bad early season skiing. turns since october 13th. maybe jan will be better than most.

maine has been the place.

rog

 

[Patrick]

To better illustrate the point, sometimes it's easier to show with Hard Data.

Here is Frankontour's personal data on Quebec Ski Area Opening since 2000 (third post from the top). He posted a spreedsheet of Quebec areas with opening date. I did some quick math.

Here are the number of areas open prior to December in Quebec (first years data is more incomplete)

2009 = only 1 (Nothing else, but Mont St-Sauveur. They opened in October and has been opening half-way in the last few days.)
2008 = 26 areas open.
2007 = 18
2006 = 3 (Mont St-Sauveur, Tremblant and MSA) Open dates: Nov 23, 24, 25.
2005 = 20
2004 = 21
2003 = 16
2002 = 31
2001 = 4 (Mont St-Sauveur, Tremblant, MSA and Stoneham) Open dates: Nov 13, 17, 23.
2000 = 18

 

[Patrick]

well, i guess october made up for november. i've never skied as many days in the last 8 years as i have this year and it wasn't bad early season skiing. turns since october 13th. maybe jan will be better than most.

Look at the last time the start of liftserved was pathetic (not as bad as this year) was in 2006-2007!!! Wiseful thinking from that Epic Powder filled season. Not sure I want to go out West if it gets as good as Feb-April 2007. :mrgreen:

maine has been the place.

Who knows, I might head back there for some decent turns this weekend.

 

[Harvey]

Who knows, I might head back there for some decent turns this weekend.

Patrick ... I'm sorry I haven't been paying close enough attention....

Have you skied this month?

 

[Anthony]

Have been skiing 44 of my 47 years and this is the worst start ever ( at least in Quebec) . The 79/80 year was bad but that year it was at least cold and dry . This November it is absolutely beach weather with more sunshine than July . The ground isn't even frozen and the water temperatures are still on the mild side . Trying to stay positive as lot of guys are going on that the game is already over. Still not ready to go over to MSS , now that would be desperate . On another note see the snow at Whistler , over 500 cm and counting :shock:

 

[riverc0il]

Bad as it has been, I already have four days this season and plan on (hopefully) increasing that total by two this weekend with perhaps some powder if this incoming storm pans out.

Suffice to say, for lift serviced and snow making it has been really bad. However, let's take a more long range view of the situation. The biggest resorts have lost two weeks/weekends and the majority of resorts that would open on Thanksgiving weekend will loose one weekend/week. Not really a huge junk of the season and with good snow making temps on the way, not the end of the world.

If only folks got this upset at lifts closing early when there is still snow on the ground... now that is something that is truly pathetic (and by "folks" I mean typical Joe average skier, not the obsessive folks we have hear that have :dead horse: that issue).

Any ways, I'm planning on getting some this weekend if it pans out. And if it doesn't, temps are dropping behind this incoming weather event and everyone will be open by the following weekend. Game on.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Agree 100% with all of river's comments. For the eastern season as a whole a slow November is a non-issue, except for those locked into ski streaks. :stir:

 

[Patrick]

I'm sorry I haven't been paying close enough attention....

Have you skied this month?

No I didn't, I was stuck between the Swine (Damn BA taxi driver and the flu of the same name) and the Flu plus one super busy first weekend in November (in Montreal for a HS School gang reunion, seeing 3 ski shops, getting equipment for the youngest, getting one pair of used skis, 4 rimes and Winter tires). No stress as I knew I was planing to recuperate the tire before the end of November. Initially thinking last month that I would go to MSA this weekend, however I might have to change of plans.

Have been skiing 44 of my 47 years and this is the worst start ever ( at least in Quebec) .

No data readying available to back it up (and not going to bother looking it up), but that I'm impression also and I remember 1979-80 well.

The biggest resorts have lost two weeks/weekends and the majority of resorts that would open on Thanksgiving weekend will loose one weekend/week. Not really a huge junk of the season and with good snow making temps on the way, not the end of the world.

I agree mostly with River, however this is where the Frankontour's Quebec data says that's a bit worst here compare to what is closer to the norm. MSA has pushed off their opening weekend for a 3rd weekend in a row, Tremblant twice.

Agree 100% with all of river's comments. For the eastern season as a whole a slow November is a non-issue, except for those locked into ski streaks. :stir:

I personally never really care for November - give me May anytime. As 2006-07 shows us, slow start doesn't mean anything except maybe for revenue of ski industry like shops and tourism sales for the coming Holidays.

Ski Streak? (Started keeping stats in 1981-82).

Here are my November streaks...
1981 to 1991
2003 to 2009?
That's right, no skiing in November from 1992 to 2002.

November 1992: End of thesis then 2 months in France
Nov 1993: Not much money / ski deals years
Nov 1994: Started working that month in Ottawa while still living in MTL.
Nov 1997: Morgane born the month before
Nov 2000: Canadian Election
Nov 2001: Health issues
Nov 2002: Tara born that month
Not motivated in 95, 96, 98, 99...as I said earlier, always preferred May.

May 1982-2009: 26/28. Only missing 1983 and 1998 due to Health issues (Fracture and cast or other)
Nov: 17/28. - 11/22 since 1988
Even June isn't far behind with 12/28. - 12/22 since 1988.

All this says that I'm not an average skier, but I guess a few of you know this already. :mrgreen:

 

[Marc_C]

Well, last weekend of November is coming up. As I'm sitting here and looking outside and around, I can only say that I don't recall ever seeing such a late general opening to the ski season.

One of our early years of owning an xmas week time share at Sugarbush had all of NE pretty much shut down (most had never yet opened that season) with multiple days of mid-40's and rain, causing us to wonder what we had done with our $4K.

 

[jasoncapecod]

For the eastern season as a whole a slow November is a non-issue, except for those locked into ski streaks

and with kids in race programs..If my daughter has any more dry land training , it's going to get ugly around my house..Say what you want about WROD skiing . It beats sitting around the house doing yard work and going shopping . ](*,)

 

[Tony Crocker]

All this says that I'm not an average skier

Much more sensible than average in term of ski quality IMHO with that monthly track record. As opposed to:

One of our early years of owning an xmas week time share at Sugarbush

Remember the NE is working on a streak of rain during Christmas week 6 years running. Throw in the crowd and cost factors and advance committing to that week in the NE is setting oneself up for frequent disappointment. And if that timeshare is like mine at Iron Blosam it costs twice as much during Xmas week as during a more reliable week in February or March.

 

[Marc_C]

Remember the NE is working on a streak of rain during Christmas week 6 years running. Throw in the crowd and cost factors and advance committing to that week in the NE is setting oneself up for frequent disappointment. And if that timeshare is like mine at Iron Blosam it costs twice as much during Xmas week as during a more reliable week in February or March.

Our week at the Eagles Resort - part of Interval International - is the 51st interval. Eagles weeks run from Saturday to the following Saturday, thus the dates shift each year, always starting on the 51st Saturday. So every 5 years it's Xmas week and every 5 years it's the week before, with xmas falling mid-week the other years.

We bought it in 1983 for $5K (they were asking $10K and 20% down but would negotiate heavily to close the deal) and (at the time) $500 / year maintenance fee (currently $825). It's a red week (meaning high demand) and all their red weeks were priced the same with the exception of the 52nd interval. The same week at Trapp Family Lodge in Stowe was at an asking price of $25K for a smaller (sleeps 4), townhouse style unit. In contrast, The Eagles consists of 16 larger stand-alone units that sleep 8. While there's no hot tub, each unit has a dry sauna in the master bathroom that can easily fit 6.

We used it every year through 2001 at Sugarbush. Empirically I'd say conditions were poor to total suckitude about 20% of those years. Things vastly improved after the ASC purchase and their infusion of $28M in capital improvements, particularly snowmaking.

It's location also gave us easy access to MRG (obviously) as well as Stowe, Jay, Bolton, Middlebury, and K-mart. In those years where things really sucked in NE, we just treated it as a vacation week and found other ways to amuse ourselves. In fact, when we purchased the week, we didn't even alpine ski - just XC, winter hike, and ice climb.

Since moving to UT, we've only been back once, rented it a few times, have one week in the exchange bank, traded this year's week for a climbing trip to Vegas last week, and ate at most 2 weeks where we were either unable to rent or unable to take advantage of an exchange. (When you bank a week, you have 2 years to use it. A domestic US exchange currently costs between $75 and $150, depending on the week and the demand for the exchange location.)

Overall during our term of ownership, we felt it was a worthwhile expenditure (timeshares most definitely are not an "investment", no matter what the sales people tell you!) and got us to take a vacation break away from home at a time when we often wouldn't. It also got us involved with alpine skiing by dint of proximity.

We still own the week, which currently rents for approx $1700 if you go through Eagles. (I'll rent it personally without the middlemen for much less - send me a PM!). We'd also be willing to sell the week if anyone is interested.
http://www.eaglesresortvt.com/index.html

 

[Bluebird Day]

I think that ski-nuts (like us) tend to set ourselves up for disappointment every year by drinking the ski industry's Cool Aid and thinking that we will get good turns in prior to Thanksgiving. I can count on one hand in 39 years of skiing how many times I was rewarded with good conditions prior to December 1 in the North East. My ski season expectations really runs from December 1 to April 30, and maybe longer if you want to earn-your-turns, on the East Coast, and longer out West.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I think that ski-nuts (like us) tend to set ourselves up for disappointment every year by drinking the ski industry's Cool Aid and thinking that we will get good turns in prior to Thanksgiving.

Exactly. And every year, we see the same disappointed posts about the skiing, or lack thereof, on Thanksgiving weekend.

 

[Geoff]

I think that ski-nuts (like us) tend to set ourselves up for disappointment every year by drinking the ski industry's Cool Aid and thinking that we will get good turns in prior to Thanksgiving.

Exactly. And every year, we see the same disappointed posts about the skiing, or lack thereof, on Thanksgiving weekend.

I skied on Thanksgiving. No complaining here. Sure, I'd like to be able to go out my back door and go skiing today but I had no problem driving to Bethel to visit some friends for Thanksgiving and make some turns.

 

[rfarren]

I think that ski-nuts (like us) tend to set ourselves up for disappointment every year by drinking the ski industry's Cool Aid and thinking that we will get good turns in prior to Thanksgiving.

Exactly. And every year, we see the same disappointed posts about the skiing, or lack thereof, on Thanksgiving weekend.

I skied on Thanksgiving. No complaining here. Sure, I'd like to be able to go out my back door and go skiing today but I had no problem driving to Bethel to visit some friends for Thanksgiving and make some turns.

I've gone a bunch of times for skiing on Thanksgiving weekend, although never on the EC. I've gone twice to Banff, once to Whistler, once to Utah, and twice to Sun Valley. Only once was the mountain actually skiable(i.e. more than one run), and that was at Whistler, although you had to upload/download. I'm just happy I didn't pay for those trips.

 

[Harvey]

...every year, we see the same disappointed posts about the skiing, or lack thereof, on Thanksgiving weekend.

In defense of the disappointed posts....they are a refreshing change from the East/West food fight.

I admit it's only a momentary diversion, as we usually circle around and get right back to it.

 

[Marc_C]

...every year, we see the same disappointed posts about the skiing, or lack thereof, on Thanksgiving weekend.

In defense of the disappointed posts....they are a refreshing change from the East/West food fight.

I admit it's only a momentary diversion, as we usually circle around and get right back to it.

Despite Alta, The Canyons, PCMR, and Snowbasin opening this week (Bird, Solitude and Brighton already open), UT conditions are pretty sparse, with the meager snowpack barely covering the rocks.

 

[rfarren]

Everyone should know that skiing is on average better in march/april than november/december.