Slides open at Whiteface

When I'm sitting at work, wishing I was doing something else (basically all winter)... it's always fun to pop over to FTO and put "Slides" in the advanced search feature.

We caught up with Bruce McCulley over the weekend and asked him about a variety of stuff including an issue that was hotly (warmly?) debated on skiadk... what are the rules/guidelines for opening the Slides. There are some who think Whiteface is too cautious.

If you are interested in what Bruce had to say ... check it out:

Bruce McCulley, Whiteface's General Manager

And with some luck (and some WF veterans at my side) ...maybe this will be my lucky year.
 
I thought this Q&A was the most interesting:

HR: Gore Mountain, also run by ORDA, opens terrain under many of their chairlifts when conditions permit. Why doesn’t Whiteface do the same? There's terrain under the Freeway and Lookout chairs that looks great.

Bruce: If a lift line is used as a trail, it would have to be added to our trail count. As you probably know, the state constitution only allows us to have 25 miles of trails. When the fourth trail on Lookout is added, we'll be within 3/10th of a mile of this limit. Opening the lift lines would require closing other trails.
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There are all these little things like this that most aren't aware of throughout skidom. So the next time you're (not you specifically, Harvey, the generic you) inclined to complain about what you consider to be a lame decision by a ski area, there might be some crazy ass reason as to why they had to do so.
 
Marc_C":3nli5sbq said:
There are all these little things like this that most aren't aware of throughout skidom. So the next time you're (not you specifically, Harvey, the generic you) inclined to complain about what you consider to be a lame decision by a ski area, there might be some crazy ass reason as to why they had to do so.
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The farther we take Harvey Road the more I realize this is true. The whole idea of interviewing GMs started last year with the passholder uproar over paid parking at Gore. I was walking through the base lodge after gathering my stuff, about to head home. On a whim really I stuck my head into the marketing office and started listening.

If you treat people with respect, it's amazing what they'll tell you. You start to realize that things are way more complicated than people realize. Many times, if you had all the facts, you'd realize that things do make sense. It's just not realistic to assume that (what you consider to be) simple, obviously, logical choices were never considered.

Not sure if you were saying this Marc, but I was also a little surprised that comments didn't arise relating to Slide access or the mileage count.
 
When I was skiing at Mont Edouard, Quebec last March (400 miles north of Whiteface), I remember reading some printed material about Bicknell's Thrush and how it makes its home there and the importance of protecting this incredibly rare species -- basically the same rap that we read throughout the northeastern U.S., but in French.

A couple questions:
Is that bird's preferred habitat lift-served mountains?
If it's so rare, how come it seems to be in so many different places?

Not trying to be a smartass -- please enlighten me.
 
jamesdeluxe":3obirik7 said:
A couple questions:
Is that bird's preferred habitat lift-served mountains?
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No. It's the ski areas that are encroaching on its limited habitat - coniferous forests above 3K' in the Northeast

jamesdeluxe":3obirik7 said:
If it's so rare, how come it seems to be in so many different places?
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It's not in "so many different places" - it's that there are actually very few of those "different places" that support the bird. The thrush itself is increasingly rare.

From wiki:
Their breeding habitat is the coniferous forests in southeastern Quebec to Nova Scotia and the sky islands of northern New England and New York state. It is the rarest and most secretive of the breeding thrushes in North America and it is the only bird whose breeding is restricted to the Northeastern part of the continent. They usually breed at higher elevations, normally nesting above 915 m (3,000 ft).

Its numbers are declining in some parts of its already limited range as a result of habitat degradation. Scientists believe that industrial pollution is one of the main reasons for the decline of the red spruce, an important element in Bicknell’s Thrush habitat in the United States. Airborne heavy metals may also damage high-elevation forests in the northeastern United States. Furthermore, based on expected substantial carbon dioxide increases by the end of the century, scientists predict a radical reduction of balsam fir forest in the eastern United States. If average global temperatures increase and forests change as much as predicted, Bicknell’s Thrush habitat is very likely to be altered in ways that may seriously affect the species’ survival.

Other potential threats to Bicknell’s Thrush habitat are the development of recreational skiing and summer sports areas, increasing numbers of telecommunication towers on mountaintops, cyclical spruce budworm outbreaks, and commercial forestry operations. Industrial forestry practices, although possibly harmful, may be modified to aid in conservation efforts to protect Bicknell’s Thrush.
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jamesdeluxe":3obirik7 said:
Not trying to be a smartass -- please enlighten me.
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Your wording of your first question suggests otherwise.
 
jamesdeluxe":16egtn5e said:
Marc_C":16egtn5e said:
some crazy ass reason
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All roads lead to Bicknell's Thrush.
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According to that interview the 25 mile limit was in the state constitution. Unless I'm mistaken that provision would mean that all areas in the state are limited. I would be interested in reading the actual text in regards to this in the NYS constitution. It doesn't seem to restrict glades or the slides, just trails.
 
All roads, in fact, lead to google. Or maybe all roads lead away from google. Either way, a two minute search yielded this:

http://www.adirondack-park.net/history/ ... -text.html

Here's the relevant language from Section 1 of Article XIV:

Section 1. The lands of the state, now owned or hereafter acquired, constituting the forest preserve as now fixed by law, shall be forever kept as wild forest lands. They shall not be leased, sold or exchanged, or be taken by any corporation, public or private, nor shall the timber thereon be sold, removed or destroyed. Nothing herein contained shall prevent the state . . . from constructing and maintaining not more than twenty-five miles of ski trails thirty to two hundred feet wide, together with appurtenances thereto, provided that no more than five miles of such trails shall be in excess of one hundred twenty feet wide, on the north, east and northwest slopes of Whiteface Mountain in Essex county, nor from constructing and maintaining not more than twenty-five miles of ski trails thirty to two hundred feet wide, together with appurtenances thereto, provided that no more than two miles of such trails shall be in excess of one hundred twenty feet wide, on the slopes of Belleayre Mountain in Ulster and Delaware counties and not more than forty miles of ski trails thirty to two hundred feet wide, together with appurtenances thereto, provided that no more than eight miles of such trails shall be in excess of one hundred twenty feet wide, on the slopes of Gore and Pete Gay mountains in Warren county. . . .
 
Harvey44":31lpvacj said:
If you treat people with respect, it's amazing what they'll tell you. You start to realize that things are way more complicated than people realize. Many times, if you had all the facts, you'd realize that things do make sense. It's just not realistic to assume that (what you consider to be) simple, obviously, logical choices were never considered.
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I generally agree with this. I have occasion to talk to ski area reps a fair amount and they are usually quite forthcoming. I suspect admin has had the same experiences.
 
On the Gore trail map, the lift-line runs are labeled “glades:” High Pines Glade (Top Ridge chair), Dark Side Glade (High Peaks chair), Gun Barrel / Double Barrel (Straightbrook chair). So as “glades” do they even count against Gore’s 40 mile trail limit? Wouldn’t the lift-line runs at WF also be considered “glades,” and therefore not count against WF's 25 mile trail limit
 
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