SNØ Oslo, Norway, Aug. 23, 2022

Yes we all know what's driving these trips, which is why I bolded the four times in my comment.

Like Patrick, Liz and I are suckers for new experiences, even if they are offbeat to many people. We have an obvious analogy in the eclipse trips. I currently have a "streak" of 12 consecutive total solar eclipses, likely to continue for 6 more barring unforeseen circumstances. Four of the 13 currently active Saros cycles are what I call "hard cases," requiring expensive travel to remote areas of the world and/or bad climatology prompting many chasers to pay up further for chartered flights above the clouds.

Many of the eclipse chasers take these remote trips and come home after a short time. Liz and I are more inclined to investigate tourism opportunities, especially in areas so remote we are unlikely to return. Next April in NW Australia is a good example of both an ends-of-the-earth location and a total of almost 3 weeks we will spend in Western Australia.

Rarely do I think an eclipse trip is taking away from other opportunities. The debatable example might be missing Iron Blosam Week in 2016 due to the Indonesia eclipse. But right after we got home we drove to Utah for a week and got two 18-inch storms, so I didn't feel too deprived.:icon-lol:

My criticism of Patrick's streak over the years is that it crowds out higher quality and often new ski experiences given finite $$$ and vacation time available. Patrick will protest that his former work and family schedules made summer travel easier. But you'll never convince me that if he had really wanted to ski the Alps, interior BC or come to Iron Blosam during Ontario spring break with his avid skiing daughter, he couldn't have made that happen. But no, it was more important to spend those $$$ and vacation days in South America in August/September. To this day Patrick's daughter (now age ~25) has only skied outside the East on two "streak trips," June/July 2010 at Mammoth and August 2015 in Zermatt.

Patrick is now retired and so has fewer time constraints than during the first decade of the streak. But he's still coaching at the Ottawa molehills and thus can't travel between Christmas and the end of March. So it's still tough for him to expand the quantity and quality of "new ski experiences." Thus the upcoming repeat trip to Australia (between second and third tier Northeast in quality by James' criteria) in September/October.
 
Last edited:
Patrick is now retired and so has fewer time constraints than during the first decade of the streak. But he's still coaching at the Ottawa molehills and thus can't travel between Christmas and the end of March. So it's still tough for him to expand the quantity and quality of "new ski experiences." Thus the upcoming repeat trip to Australia (between second and third tier Northeast in quality by James' criteria) in September/October.
I don't feel the need to travel when skiing is 25 miles away from my house. If you look at the old FTO posts, my ski history has always been related to extend my ski season as long as possible (i.e. Skied in June 19 times from 1988 to 2005, prior to the ski streak being a thing. Includes first ski trip out in Western Canada and first trip in Western US). I don't like the summer heat, give cooler air anytime. I would pick -30c over +30c any day. (-22F over 86F). Irish and slightly Viking ancestry? ;)

To make things simpler... uniquely my Killington days from 1983-84 to 2004-05, pre ski streak:
Nov: 7 (15%)
Dec-Apr: 8 (17%)
May: 23 (50%)
June: 8 (17%)

Total: 46

Australia:
Totally unrelated to the ski streak; I've gotten my September turns. Trip to the Rockies late November/early December, totally unrelated to the ski streak.

A NYC trip was planned for early September 6 months ago, dates were Sept 7-10; we had tickets to see Bauhaus, unfortunately the show has been canceled again. Although we came back from Calgary on Sept 3 and was suppose to go to Toronto on Sept 6, then to NYC via Ottawa, I was hoping to get some indoor turns again even if I had gotten some Septurns.

But you'll never convince me that if he had really wanted to ski the Alps, interior BC or come to Iron Blosam during Ontario spring break with his avid skiing daughter, he couldn't have made that happen. But no, it was more important to spend those $$$ and vacation days in South America in August/September. To this day Patrick's daughter (now age ~25) has only skied outside the East on two "streak trips," June/July 2010 at Mammoth and August 2015 in Zermatt.
Daughter started racing in 2009-10 plus she had 3 season ending injuries in Winter 2011, 2012 and 2018. School, music and skiing activities made it hard to reconcile. We had planned a March Break trip after the last race of the season in 2020, but the plug was pulled. On that trip, the oldest couldn't get time off work.

Oldest skied outside the East in 2006 (2-week family vacation in PNW), 2010 (Mammoth after school year), 2015 (extended our family vacation just the 2 of us prior to university: Zermatt, Saas Fee, Hintertux, Molltaler plus sightseeing Zurich, Innsbruck, Salzburg, Vienna, Venice, Croatia, Slovenia and Munich, etc) and 2019 (Zermatt) despite already having skied in Mammoth in July 2 weeks earlier).

My skiing duties has huge benefits as my salaries easily covers my lift tickets expenses and then some.
 
That said, I don't know why you don't want to admit the streak is the driver of so many trips that 'just happen' to include iffy 'skiing' and accidentally on perfectly timed monthly dates. I say, just let it be what it is.
See my comments above on my history of extending my ski season as long as possible.
You're a fanatic for skiing and ski streaks and it is what it is. No other explanation needed. Keep skiing as you see fit.
I'm a fanatic, no question about it. Ski streak is a side benefit. If the ski streak was the only thing that mattered, why wouldn't have limited my skiing to Mt.Hood in Aug/Sept or indoor in New Jersey instead of hoping to longer trips and more work to earn turns?

Yes, keeping skiing....

When I was dealing with the depth of depression, the ski streak or/and coaching was the kick in the butt I sometimes needed to get out of the house and ski. Unfortunately that is still true today.
 
Tail is still wagging the dog. All of Morgane's skiing outside the East has been in late June - early September. Wouldn't she have rather skied Snowbird or western Canada during Ontario spring break?:eusa-think::eusa-think:

Australia:
Totally unrelated to the ski streak; I've gotten my September turns.
Ahh, but October, not buying it. And if traveling to Australia is for a concert, that's almost nuttier than for skiing.

Trip to the Rockies late November/early December, totally unrelated to the ski streak.
Low tide season, very much related to being unavailable when there's more snow on the ground.
To make things simpler... uniquely my Killington days from 1983-84 to 2004-05, pre ski streak:
Nov: 7 (15%)
Dec-Apr: 8 (17%)
May: 23 (50%)
June: 8 (17%)

Total: 46
No argument on that, not so different from my Mammoth profile (50% April and later). Early/late season skiing within drive distance in one's own region makes a lot of sense.

Everyone has limitations on $$$ and time to allocate to one's passions. For someone as fanatical about skiing as Patrick, a shockingly small number of ski days have occurred in the Alps, Japan or western North America January-March. To quote our former admin. "It's all about quality." Quality of skiing is what has been sacrificed most in pursuit of the streak. You know, minor details like skiing major league mountains with all terrain open, getting some fresh powder every once in a while, stuff like that.

Other streakers like Ron Cram in Utah and the PNW guys on TurnsAllYear ARE skiing major league mountains with abundant powder days during the winter. That's why Patrick is the only easterner doing this, and why it would be noteworthy for a feature article somewhere if the snowsports journalism business wasn't so moribund.
 
Last edited:
shockingly small number of ski days have occurred in the Alps, Japan or western North America January-March.
I don't know, but I can't really complain.

Alps stats: 45 days (Jan-Mar 28 - 62%; Jul-Sep - 27%). 73% if count the days from Dec-Avr.
Dec: 5
Jan: 15
Mar: 13

Jul-Sep: 12

Western NA: 143 days (Jan-Mar 27 - 19%; Jul-Sep 32 - 22%). 44% if count the days from Dec-Avr.
Oct: 5
Nov: 6
Dec: 11
Jan: 10
Feb: 10
Mar: 7

Apr: 25
May: 9
Jun: 28
Jul: 18
Aug: 9
Sep: 5



That's why Patrick is the only easterner doing this, and why it would be noteworthy for a feature article somewhere if the snowsports journalism business wasn't so moribund.
Not the only one, I know a few. For example, an ex-Jay patrol is at around 5 years. Apparently there was one in Florida, but the pandemic ended his streak.
 
Certainly interesting numbers of western NA days by Patrick. I skied with him at Loveland on one of those days back in the day (October if I recall, with a whopping ~3 trails open).

Obviously a different ballgame for me, having lived out west for two different periods of my life (Tahoe and a long time in Colo now).

But I also note that I had 21 days skiing in the western US during March before I even graduated from college. March is the 4th LOWEST out of all 12 months for # of Patrick days out west despite it being the best ski month of the year in much of the west! With more days for me out west during periods I lived in Buffalo for grad school or while living in Atlanta for 3 years (I'm pretty sure that location would have nearly killed Patrick with both the heat and essentially no skiing nearby). Though for me, I like a cold, snowy winter and a warm, sunny summer for water activities and biking, etc...
 
Patrick's website has a list of his ski days by season through 2020-21.

His Dec. - Apr. ski days in the Alps were:
9 in Jan. 1991
7 in Dec. 1992 - Jan 1993
13 in Mar. 2003

Western Canada:
7 in Apr. 1996
5 in Apr. 1999
6 in Apr. 2000
7 in Mar. 2002

Western US:
13 in Jan/Feb 2006
The first 9 days of that trip were the first time I skied with Patrick.

Through 2003 Patrick's ski seasons look quite normal for an young easterner starting a family. He managed regular season destination trips in about half of those seasons.

There are ZERO ski days in Europe or western North America Dec. - Apr. after Feb. 2006 through 2021. The streak started Oct. 2005. I don't think those two stats are coincidental.

As a retiree the first half of December and April are now available to Patrick for travel. For the time being Jan, Feb and Mar are still off limits. But he's still younger than I was when I retired. So he has some time to widen his horizons and partake in more of the world's great ski experiences.
 
Last edited:
There are ZERO ski days in Europe or western North America Dec. - Apr. after Feb. 2006 through 2021. The streak started Oct. 2005. I don't think those two stats are coincidental.

As a retiree the first half of December and April are now available to Patrick for travel. For the time being Jan, Feb and Mar are still off limits. But he's still younger than I was when I retired. So he has some time to widen his horizons and partake in more of the world's great ski experiences.

Since Caroline and I have been together... all trips to Europe have been as a family, always a minimum of three weeks. One kid easier, two kids without missing school impossible. Serious $$$ once Tara was born in Nov 2002.
1992-93, 1995, 1998, 2000-01, 2003, 2011, 2015, 2019.

Then you had the work/minority government situation where my Dec 2000-01, June 2005, Jan-Feb 2006, Feb 2008 trips had huge put back implication and greater than 1/4 of being canceled even if initially approved. The Winter Alberta/BC 2007 trip was canceled less than one month prior to departure due sudden family emergency.

Also recall that my kid started ski racing in 2009-10, I began coaching in 2013-14, kid had a season ending injury in 2011, 2012 and 2018. So by dismissing trips prior to Feb 2006, they were zero months where Canada had a stable Federal government (2004-2011)(directly related to my job and kid ski racing. One car family, kids with different extracurricular activities (ski racing and music) on midweek evening and weekends.

There are ZERO ski days in Europe or western North America Dec. - Apr. after Feb. 2006 through 2021
How about 25 days?


Here are the December-April Ski days out Western North America after Feb 2006's 13 days. Surely you'll be able to dismissed these as well.
Feb: 7
Apr: 7
Dec: 11

Of course, my numerous days in the East don't count for anything in this equation...

Here is the breakdown of ski days per areas (greater than 1) since I started my streak (minus locals - greatest than 90min):
Québec:
St-Sauveur QC: 52
Tremblant QC: 16
Avila QC: 11
Ste-Anne QC: 5
Sutton QC: 5
Massif QC: 5
Edouard QC: 5
Chic Chocs QC: 5
Gray Rocks QC: 4
Blanc QC: 4
Owl's Head QC: 4
Mont Chilly QC: 4
Orford QC: 4
Bromont QC: 3
Valinouet QC: 2

Vermont:
MRG VT: 35
Jay VT: 21
Killington VT: 20
Smuggs VT: 10
Sugarbush VT: 8
Bolton VT: 4
Middlebury VT: 4
Stowe VT: 3
Burke VT: 3
Stratton VT: 2

New York:
Whiteface NY: 15
Gore NY: 3
Titus NY: 3

New Hampshire:
Tuckerman + Mt. Washington NH: 11
Cannon NH: 8
Wildcat NH: 6
Bretton Woods NH: 2
Waterville NH: 2

Maine:
Sunday River ME: 12
Sugarloaf ME: 6
Saddleback ME: 2
 
Here are the December-April Ski days out Western North America after Feb 2006's 13 days. Surely you'll be able to dismissed these as well.
Feb: 7
Apr: 7
Dec: 11
I found the April days, the last 7 days of April 2017 in Alberta. I'm fairly sure this was connected to Patrick's Ottawa coaching. In February 2008 Patrick had 7 days at Shames/Smithers with Lucky Luke. I don't find any west/Euro December days on Patrick's website so the December days were Dec. 1-11, 2021 before Ottawa race season.

So I stand corrected:
There are ZERO ski days in Europe or western North America December 12 - April 21 since Feb. 2008. This is quite conclusive proof that the streak has radically determined Patrick's ski priorities for a very long time. And by all indications the 100% embargo on mid-December - early April ski travel outside the East is still ongoing.

EMSC: And really I'm just saying you can be up front that many of your trips are about The Streak as much as they are to do/see any other things.
Yes, Patrick's posts are dissembling. First he tries to say a reasonable percentage of the Alps/western days are in Jan-Mar when nearly all of them were before the streak. When I went through his website the first time I missed one true regular season trip, and that was in Feb. 2008, very early in the streak.
 
Last edited:
What percent of peak ski experiences are lost by refusing to travel outside the East between mid-December and mid-April? I'll say a minimum of 80% based upon Patrick's admission that if he had no restrictions on his skiing, he'd ski 20% in the East.

It's not just that he's skiing the Mammoths and Zermatts of the world in limited summer vs. full operation winter. He completely misses out on the under the radar places like Castle, Discovery and numerous places James has skied in the Alps. These places depend mostly upon locals, do not have extensive snowmaking or long seasons and thus need to be visited during mid-January to mid-March prime time. And forget about Japan, which has an intense but short (2 months maximum) season for its famed powder dumps.

Even in the East, if northern Vermont had another spectacular powder month like March 2001, would Patrick be able to leave the Ottawa molehills to ski there? He did take a road trip through Maine and the Saguenay last year, but it was April 10-18.
My skiing duties has huge benefits as my salaries easily covers my lift tickets expenses and then some.
Yes, lift tickets when you are on duty, not lift tickets in Australia or the travel expense to get there.

As we age time becomes more valuable than $$$. Patrick is close to the age when I retired. I know he wants to ski La Grave, for example. I suggest that he not wait until he's 70 to do that. Take it from one who knows. Warren Miller was right.
 
Last edited:
There are ZERO ski days in Europe or western North America December 12 - April 21 since Feb. 2008. This is quite conclusive proof that the streak has radically determined Patrick's ski priorities for a very long time. (...) As we age time becomes more valuable than $$$. Patrick is close to the age when I retired I know he wants to ski La Grave, for example. I suggest that he not wait until he's 70 to do that. Take it from one who knows. Warren Miller was right.
While I've always agreed with the tail-wagging-the-dog premise that Tony notes above, I'm not sure what he's trying to accomplish. Patrick has a unique point of view and clearly gets a lot of enjoyment planning and carrying out these off-season and shoulder-season trips that I personally wouldn't undertake.

If I could've retired at that age with the financial resources and leisure time to do what I want, where I want, and when I want (within reason) like Patrick, god knows I'd do it differently; however, I'm not going to browbeat him into adopting my logic. Chacun sa vie!
 
I think the streak became a slippery slope. At the beginning work and family obligations left most of Patrick's free time in the summer, yet he still managed that Feb. 2008 trip with Luke. A few years later I couldn't help but notice that with an avid skiing daughter they never left the East during her spring break yet Patrick was going to South America regularly. I had an avid skiing kid too, and during most of my family years Adam's spring break (two weeks later in the season than Morgane's) was our longest and sometimes only out-of-state destination ski trip.

Now circumstances have changed. Patrick has more flexibility. He could even keep the streak alive at the relatively lower cost options of Timberline and Parker Ridge (or New Jersey!) while allocating some time and $$$ to in-season northern destinations. But James is right. If Patrick would rather make repeat trips to Australia and never ski Japan or La Grave or......, that's his choice.

Speaking of repeat trips to Australia, in an area similar to the continental US, Australia enjoyed total solar eclipses in 2002 and 2012 and after next April will have still more in 2028, 2030, 2037 and 2038. I can vouch for Australia not being a cheap destination.
 
Last edited:
I invite Patrick to contribute to this thread. He's missing stats from when he was growing up but I think has complete stats since 1982.
Complete stats since I turned 16. First season is from 1981-82. Graduated from High School in 1983.

I'll respond to replies, but I have a few things on my plate prior to my Saturday departure for Australia.
 
My behavior is becoming the opposite of The Streak.

The window when I want to go skiing keeps shrinking. Now I only want to ski from about mid-January to April 1st in order to maximize base depths and the chance that more difficult/steeper/extreme lines are open. An early or late-season storm can alter my calculations.

Otherwise, it's not that interesting to me.....done the groomers, WROD, sun cups, and random strips.

I have skied almost any 'personally' interesting resort in the Western US and Canada (AZ/NM to BC), and the Eastern US and Canada (NC/TN to QC). Never skied in the Midwest. There are a couple of areas I'm missing: Castle Mt., Vancouver local areas, and some SoCal areas. And there are places in the NW that I'd rather just ignore - too much effort.

I have also done the almost year-round streak 'accidentally' in the NW by skiing Crystal/Timberline, and then backcountry volcanoes (Rainier-Paradise, St. Helens, Adams). Likely missed October.

What motivates me?
I'd like to ski more European resorts because you can generally find some amazing terrain really anywhere. Interested in the Dolomites (Cortina/Sella), Alagna, Austria (Solden/Obergurgl, glaciers, Kitzbuhel, Saalbach). British Columbia is a magical place full of relatively affordable towns, great mountains, and snowcat/heli operations. Would never rule out a return to either Japan (main island) or New Zealand for snow. Love skiing in Telluride (Bear Creek/Gold Hill) combined with Silverton (half guide/half heli day). And Palisades Tahoe, Whistler, Jackson, Alta/Snowbird are always great.
 
I have skied almost any 'personally' interesting resort in the Western US and Canada (AZ/NM to BC), and the Eastern US and Canada (NC/TN to QC). Never skied in the Midwest.
I spent so many years as a racer/coach that this statement is not true for me. In some ways unfortunately I now have a racer son myself which certainly limits me a bit, but I really need to get on the ball and hit many places I want to while I still have solid physical shape for skiing the best of the best terrain.

I think I have only one more super restricted season coming up before I will have more free time. Still hoping to add in at least a few interesting options on the edges this year if I can though.
 
I think the streak became a slippery slope. At the beginning work and family obligations left most of Patrick's free time in the summer, yet he still managed that Feb. 2008 trip with Luke.
Slippery slope extreme at work in 2008. Let's just say that time off during the 2005-11 generally equal to jumping thru a few hoops. I won't talk about it anymore.

A few years later I couldn't help but notice that with an avid skiing daughter they never left the East during her spring break yet Patrick was going to South America regularly.
Again Summer was easier for me and didn't get any pushback from work or home. M raced from 2009-10 to 2012-13 with 2 ski season ending injuries. She didn't even get to ski March break in 2011 and 2012. I was recruited to coach after the 2012-13 season.

Patrick has more flexibility. He could even keep the streak alive at the relatively lower cost options of Timberline and Parker Ridge (or New Jersey!) while allocating some time and $$$ to in-season northern destinations.
Yes, but I'm committed to coaching the ski club. Not really useful when your coach isn't always there. My coaching duties generally cover the expenses of my off-season ski trips.

Speaking of repeat trips to Australia
Also planning to see a few shows. I've been keeping an eye for this season; it's a good season. I don't want to jinx it, but this weekend is forecast is calling for the biggest storm since the start of the season in early June.
 
Yes, Patrick's posts are dissembling.
You kept moving the goal posts.
a shockingly small number of ski days have occurred in the Alps, Japan or western North America January-March.
Hiw many of the Jan-Mar days in the lists above are since the streak began in October 2005?
There are ZERO ski days in Europe or western North America Dec. - Apr. after Feb. 2006 through 2021. The streak started Oct. 2005.
So I stand corrected:
There are ZERO ski days in Europe or western North America December 12 - April 21 since Feb. 2008.
I live in the East, I love my Eastern days. @jamesdeluxe has skied with me a few times in the East over a decade ago; was I bored or truly cherished those days?
He did take a road trip through Maine and the Saguenay last year, but it was April 10-18.
I don't think you can count anything when travel still had many huddles. In theory, I wasn't even allowed to cross the bridge into Quebec for most of the 2020-21 ski season. All ski hills in Ontario were closed for 2 months. As I'm employee to a Quebec ski area, I could.

Look at the pre-pandemic 2019-20 Eastern days. That season also had a March break to Banff and extension into Revy
canceled due to Covid.

The US-Canada land border was closed from mid-March 2020 to April 1st 2022. I wanted to travel earlier, but weather sucked the week before. So bad that Cannon closed few days only to reopen one last time on the last Sunday... April 10. My first day on that trip.

Regardless of the timing of that trip, skiing was pretty glorious (minus Cannon and one day of hard freeze at Mont Edouard) during this trip. 7 out of 9 awesome ski days; corn snow or powder days.
December days were Dec. 1-11, 2021.
That trip started on Nov 28, but didn't include it as you mentioned December.
28: COP. A few hours after a morning flight from Ottawa.
29: Louise
30-1-2: Marmot
Dec 3 (road closed between Louise and Jasper since Nov 30th until 3pm on Dec 3rd).
4-5-6: Louise
7-8: Revy
9: Drive from Rev to Invermere. Everyone else is opening the coming weekend.
10: Pano (first day of the season)
11: Fernie (1st day of season)
12-13: Castle

I found the April days, the last 7 days of April 2017 in Alberta. I'm fairly sure this was connected to Patrick's Ottawa coaching.
I decided to register for a coaching course at Sunshine instead of Eastern Canada. So my choice on a stellar Spring out in Alberta. The course was 2 days inside and 3 days on snow at Sunshine. Skiing Delirium Dive on the Apr 29th wasn't part of the course. :p

Apr 22: Nakiska
Apr 23: Louise
Apr 24-25: course indoor
Apr 26-27-28: course at Sunshine
Apr 29: Sunshine
Apr 30: Louise
May 1: Sunshine

Chacun sa vie!
Yes, thank you.

In normal years, I get over 100 days per season. I get paid to coach which easily covers all the passes bought during the ski season and often even enough to cover all the expenses from a trip.

That doesn't suck. I think we've covered the topic.

PS. Probably the last time I'll get time to post prior to my departure Saturday.
 
I have skied almost any 'personally' interesting resort in the Western US and Canada (AZ/NM to BC),
I'm at that point too. My most skied list in the other thread quite closely resembles my favorite places with the exception of the SoCal areas which are still on the list but steadily declining in percent of skiing they represent. And like ChrisC the focus for new places now is definitely the Alps.

I part company with ChrisC on the subject of early and late season. Mammoth's late seasons are consistently good and usually include some steeps to closing day. Sierra volatility yields some erratically worthwhile early turns too, like last October 29 at Mammoth. These same early storms should hit Tahoe too, but it seems that often the rain/snow line is too high, or even when it does snow like last October it doesn't stick.

I predict that Patrick's list will have the exact opposite trend from mine. Probably when we first skied together in 2006 he mentioned Tremblant as his most skied area but it was only a little over 10%, sort of like James and Belleayre. I remember that because it struck me as an unusually low percent for the most skied area. Now Patrick's numbers will be dominated by the Ottawa locals. In one way that's misleading because it's a good illustration why vertical is a better measure of skiing than day count. Those local coaching days probably average 1/4 to 1/3 the vertical of Patrick's unrestricted ski days.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top