Wachusett, Hunter, Snow and Skier Visits

[Tony Crocker]

How far apart are Jay and Sutton?

12 miles with about 25% snowfall decline.

Park City and Alta?

4 miles from Brighton to Park City Summit House with a 40% decline in snowfall.

Western bias here: I confess to this being glaringly obvious to me with 10,000+ foot mountains and 6,000+ foot orographic lift vs. locations behind those mountains. This is evident within the ski area itself at Park City and Palisades with base areas leeward of the mountain crest by only a couple of miles.

How about Cannon and Loon? Or Stowe and Smuggs?

Essentially no difference in either of those pairs.

Yesterday was the first time I crawled over upstate NY on Google Earth and found that the Catskills have some prominence in regional context. The orogaphic uplift is about 1,500 feet.

To recap, the brochure quotes in the Catskills are:
Plattekill 175
Belleayre 141
Windham 105
Hunter 70

So the consensus is that a round number reasonable estimate for Plattekill would be 150, not 175? Belleayre and Hunter are reasonable? Should Windham be knocked down to say, 90, since Hunter is 70 and moving halfway toward Windham Jewett is 81?

 

[jasoncapecod]

12 miles with about 25% snowfall decline.

4 miles from Brighton to Park City Summit House with a 40% decline in snowfall.

Western bias here: I confess to this being glaringly obvious to me with 10,000+ foot mountains and 6,000+ foot orographic lift vs. locations behind those mountains. This is evident within the ski area itself at Park City and Palisades with base areas leeward of the mountain crest by only a couple of miles.


Essentially no difference in either of those pairs.

Yesterday was the first time I crawled over upstate NY on Google Earth and found that the Catskills have some prominence in regional context. The orogaphic uplift is about 1,500 feet.

To recap, the brochure quotes in the Catskills are:
Plattekill 175
Belleayre 141
Windham 105
Hunter 70

So the consensus is that a round number reasonable estimate for Plattekill would be 150, not 175? Belleayre and Hunter are reasonable? Should Windham be knocked down to say, 90, since Hunter is 70 and moving halfway toward Windham Jewett is 81?

I agree with your numbers.
With that all said
The frequency of rain is equal throughout the Catskills

 

[Tony Crocker]

The frequency of rain is equal throughout the Catskills

As evidenced by that scary East Jewett chart I posted in the addendum to my FWSA presentation:

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Should Windham be knocked down to say, 90, since Hunter is 70

a round number reasonable estimate for Plattekill would be 150, not 175?

Yes to both

Rain is so frequent in November and April that extensive shoulder season skiing is rare

I've had many excellent late March/early April days (which is shoulder season for the East Coast) at Belleayre and Windham.

 

[Tony Crocker]

When I do my last season progress report second weekend of April, Hunter is usually done for the season. I assumed that means their snow has melted out. Admittedly this trend is even worse since the Vail takeover. Average Hunter percent open April 1 last 5 years is 45% vs. 63% from 2005-2019.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

When I do my last season progress report second weekend of April, Hunter is usually done for the season. I assumed that means their snow has melted out.

Windham is always scheduled to close after the first Sunday in April, whether the hill is completely covered or partially bare. Not sure what Vail's policy with Hunter is.

In April, you see the snowmaking difference these days between Belle and Plattekill. The latter melts out far more quickly because it can't compete with a state-financed entity. I remember during the 00s when Belle's snowmaking was pretty weak because all of NYS's money went directly to Gore and Whiteface (see my 2010 interview with Joe Kelly). Still, several times back then the ski area went deep into April with proper natural cover, like in 2007 when it closed on April 23. I wonder if 2025 Belle would do that.

It's interesting to note that Joe Kelly's prediction back then -- if the state gave under-performing Belle an equal share of the NYS funding pie, it would become very popular with the downstate NY/CT/NJ crowd -- came true in a "be careful what you wish for" sense.