Western Weather 2017-18 and Later

It's probably a lot of sticky slowness considering limited terrain open being fairly mellow. I'm surprised A-Basin can't extend past June 5 with the amount of new snow in May/June and associated weather arresting the spring meltdown though.

Al's blog May 26 explained why Pali did not reopen after the big May 16 storm. Today's blog is about imminent dismantling of Lenawee so it can be replaced by a high speed lift. Perhaps that's why A-Basin is sticking with the June 5 closing.
 
Overall I have little doubt that A-Basin is as committed to late season skiing as Mammoth. But the planning process is much easier at Mammoth. By sometime in March they can look at the snow depth and have a good idea how late to sign up race camps into the spring/early summer. By late April they probably know whether they can make it to July 4. Both of the above lead times let them plan their staffing needs.

A-Basin generally has little idea in March how long the season will end up being. Its average maximum snowpack is only 81 inches (vs. 138 at Mammoth) and is usually attained in late April. A-Basin's late season is highly dependent upon how much snow falls in April and May, usually quite a bit due to its microclimate, so you can't plan ahead for that. Nor can you plan ahead for when Pali will close, which is generally after three consecutive days with no overnight freeze.

Here's a question for EMSC. I know Copper has race camps in November before opening to the public. Why does no one in Colorado have late season race camps? Are they not allowed to salt the snow, similar to LCC/BCC restrictions?
 
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Lenawee so it can be replaced by a high speed lift. Perhaps that's why A-Basin is sticking with the June 5 closing.
Yep that's it. They already have parts of the new HSQ lift staged in parking lots with a short construction season at that altitude. Otherwise I'm sure they would have extended another week or two given the decent spring snowfall this year. Plus they actually have to be careful (read: slower) disassembling the current triple chair as it is going only a few hours away to be installed at Sunlight next summer.
 
eastern ski seasons probably are more dependent upon temperature (more snowmaking, less rain) than snowfall totals.
Some truth here. 14/15 was (slightly) below average for snowfall in my world, but a very good season with a long stretch below freezing.

I'm sure Harvey and most eastern skiers know that the big snowstorms that hit the East Coast cities and make the news rarely do much in the upper New England ski areas.
Also true.

 
Here's a question for EMSC. I know Copper has race camps in November before opening to the public. Why does no one in Colorado have late season race camps? Are they not allowed to salt the snow, similar to LCC/BCC restrictions?

Somehow I didn't see this question back a couple weeks ago.

Colorado does have late season race camps. It's all a matter of the kid ages, skill level (advanced), and interest level of the skiers of course. I've even coached at them for a decade or so from late 90's to late aughts. My son is only 12 and while certainly interested in skiing/racing, he's not an absolute, crazy for it at all times, homer for it at the moment, thus some May camp time was up his alley (my final Winter park ski days that I TR'd this season). Perhaps more and later into summer next season. It'll help once I also have more available time too.

In addition to Winter Park race camps (which only went through most of May), one of the prime venues for late season is actually Copper which is open only for the racers up top and they also have huge piles of snow for the slopestyle/park-rat groups that continue well into July usually.

At this point, racers are taking the Eagle up to mid-station and skiing on the two snowmaking trails off Excelerator lift which has decent N facing slopes. It's June 14 and I just took this cam shot of them training up there right now. Both left and right of the lift, one trail each side of gate training going on. Then they'll download about noon-ish on the gondola. I would guess they are nearing the end of viability by this upcoming weekend though. Summer race camp stuff is all hand salted in Colo unlike Mammoth. I can tell you how much fun it is to carry a 50 pound open bag of salt, damaging your clothes while trying to hand throw it consistently!
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Here are the park rats today on the "Woodward" terrain park trail. I think they shuttle bus them up and down to that section of trail to start and end the day. There is a rather long magic carpet on the far side of all that snow for lapping the jumps and park features once up there.
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Yes, but doesn't wrap-around from Nor'Easters also hit Vermont, sometimes all the way to Jay Peak?
Nor'easters of course can track a bit differently each time. The ones that have heavy coastal snow often only give a few inches to most ski areas. When they track right along the coast or just inland they provide huge rain to the coastal cities, and those are the ones that wrap lots and lots of snow to the inland ski areas.
 
Copper is a logical choice for late season camps in Colorado with the high north facing Excelerator terrain and high speed access lifts to up and download to/from it.

As at Bachelor, POWDR Corp has minimal interest in allowing public skiing during race camp season.
 
Timberline Lodge has always accommodated racers, boarders and recreational skiers on its lifts and terrain during summer season.

Looks like Whistler, Blackcomb and Bachelor have given up.
 
Bachelor does not do camps nearly as often as they could. One year they did was 2012, but it was open to the public only at the end, June 29 - July 1. Neither Patrick nor I could resist the opportunity.

The public used to be permitted at Whistler Blackcomb but no more. Liz skied Whistler in June 1999 and Adam attended a freestyle camp at Blackcomb in 2002.
 
Horstman glacier on Blackcomb side is open for camps only for 2022 and is currently open.
 
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I guess the Horstman T-bar has been officially removed and it's the shorter Showcase T-bar utilized for summer camp-only skiing.

The last time I skied Whistler in March 2017, everything looked OK - but there were lots of issues.

New Whistler-Blackcomb trail map without Horstman T-bar. Maybe they could replace it with a Euro-style tram with almost no towers. The link to 7th Heaven is really important.

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Article from Powder Magazine here

Iconic Horstman T-Bar Removed Due to Glacier Melt
The Whistler Blackcomb T-Bar was a fixture in a golden era of summer skiing and films
When Level 1 posted a tribute to Whistler Blackcomb’s iconic Horstman T-Bar on July 13, skiers mourned for one of their own. Since its installation in 1987, the surface lift served the public park, was a fixture in the summer ski scene, and scores of incredible skiers cut their teeth on that part of the glacier.
“It’s where so much of the sport as we know it today really developed,” said Level 1’s Josh Berman. “When you’ve got the best skiers in the world gathered in one place with blue skies, soft snow, and a competitive atmosphere, you’re going to see some amazing things.”
Though the Horstman T-Bar was removed this week due to longstanding glacier melt issues, it’s important to note that summer skiing on the Horstman Glacier is not over. A spokesperson at Whistler Blackcomb told POWDER, “Over time, the Horstman Glacier’s profile has changed to the point that the Horstman T-bar became inoperable and required us to remove it. The Showcase T-bar is in a better location and will continue to service the glacier for both summer and winter. We are looking forward to welcoming skiers and riders for the winter season, several months away, and our intent is to be back to summer glacier skiing in 2021.”
Momentum Camps now uses the Showcase T-Bar to access their terrain—taken in 2016.
Made famous in Johnny Decesare’s Poor Boyz Productions films like “State of Mind” and “Degenerates,” the Horstman T-Bar was home to skiers including JP Auclair, Mike Douglas, Vincent Dorian, and J.F. Cusson, who made a name for themselves and the New Canadian Air Force, pushing the limits of freestyle skiing on the slushy summer snow of the Horstman glacier—against the wishes of the snowboarder-dominant park scene. The legacy of skiing and filmmaking on that glacier lives on through Level 1 films. Half of their first film, “Balance,” was shot there by Berman and Jeff Winterton while they crashed on Sarah Burke’s couch.
When asked whether the other side of the Horstman glacier or other glaciers in the US and Europe could serve the same function as the T-Bar, Berman replied, “I don’t know if the legacy of the golden era we’re referring to can really be picked up and put anywhere else. But summer skiing will hopefully maintain space in the sport as a gathering point for aspiring pros and older mentors. As soon as the snow melts and there are fewer far-flung places to ski, people come to where there’s snow.”
That’s what makes places like Horstman so special—the scarcity of summer snow concentrates skiers who usually never meet in the winter months. These sites become a place to share ideas and push new boundaries.
Ski camps such as Ken Achenbach’s no-longer-running Camp of Champions, which was among the first terrain parks to allow skiers, and John Smart’s Momentum Ski Camps utilized the glacier to train new athletes and push the sport forward.
Smart, a 13-time World Cup medalist, and two-time Olympian stated that though the Horstman T-Bar is gone, Blackcomb will still be a hub of summer skiing for years to come. “The majority of the melt out on the glacier has been on the Horstman T-Bar. Over the years that area has gotten to be too much work to maintain. One of the best solutions we found with the mountain was using the existing chairlifts. Our camps relied on the Horstman T-Bar, but we now have a new route through the Glacier Express chair and then access the glacier through a single chair lift.”
The footprint on the glacier will be smaller now, and less hassle for the mountain ops. Smart’s hope is that the resort will move the existing snowmaking equipment from the Horstman T-Bar area and bring it to the Showcase area, to further improve the snow farming on that side. The future of the glacier will be with the camps; there is no public skiing on the Showcase side of the glacier.
“Climate change and the way it affects our sport really makes me sad. I wouldn’t have imagined I’d see the changes affecting our sport so deeply over the course of my career,” Berman said. “We’re seeing its effects much more quickly and impactfully than we’d imagined. I hope it wakes people up to the fact that this is real and I hope that people will be inspired to make personal changes and lobby for changes beyond their control to preserve our sport for future generations. My dad’s generation never thought to ask ‘What does skiing look like in 20 years?’ But I’m asking that for my kids.”
 
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I skied Horstman with my kids July 26 2007..The trail to the bottom of the shuttle bus was open too

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RIP - looks great though!

I used to go up to Whistler for birthday weekends in late April/early May in the late 90s/early 00s. You could snag a 3-bedroom condo penthouse with a hot tub for $200+ USD due to the exchange rate and way off-peak season. Only Whistler mountain would be open at that time period - but still great till early afternoon.

Never did Blackcomb Glacier in the summer. Not sure why I missed that. Crystal often ran into June/July for epic late 90s years and went to Timberline Lodge for July or August ski fix. Vertical is greater at Timberline, but south exposure is worse.
 
This Horstman view is from my 2019 TR. You can see they were trying to make snow on the upper part of the T-bar to make it viable again, but that effort was not successful. I believe Jasoncapecod's pic is actually the Showcase t-Bar.

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It was John Smart's camp that Adam attended in 2002. He was coached by Sarah Burke and at least one of the three Phil's. In 2002 not only did they lap the Horstman T-Bar but they hiked above it to ski the Stupids chutes.

Here's a pic from April 2015 looking down on the Showcase T-bar:
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I'm inclined to agree with EMSC that Jason's pic is of Showcase.
...Horstman T-bar. Maybe they could replace it with a Euro-style tram with almost no towers. The link to 7th Heaven is really important.
Yes that link is very important, but a simple fixed chairlift is all that's needed. It's no longer viable for skiers to ride tracks on the snow, but conventional lift towers can be embedded in the rocks.

EMSC's pic is the first I've seen in North America of blowing snow on high terrain midwinter to build up snow for summer skiing. I've seen it in person at Engelberg and the Pitztal Glacier.
 
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Yes that link is very important, but a simple fixed chairlift is all that's needed. It's no longer viable for skiers to ride tracks on the snow, but conventional lift towers can be embedded in the rocks.

Whistler should be able to come up with a lift alignment that utilizes non-moving rock outcroppings.

A conversation on Liftblog here
ROB WITHEYJanuary 27, 2022 / 11:12 am​
We are working on a larger plan for the 7th Heaven/Horstman glacier area. Timing is unknown at this point. Showcase T-bar will need to be revisited as well. We moved it in 2015 with a view to doing something more permanent in 5 years. It’s now 2022.​
Like​
 
here's a couple of pics from summer skiing in Zermatt in 2010.. Don't think the T-bars are permanent ?

The T-bars are permanent, but operating schedules seem to vary depending on the time of year and snow conditions.

What I have witnessed is the following:
  • The core Plateau Rosa double T-bars are open year-round since they access some of the best snow and have the best pitch. Skied them on my visits in January, April and July.
  • The T-bars Grandegg and Testa 1 from Tockener Steg to Testa Grigia are open most of the year but can melt out during summer. These are not really worth taking since the terrain is very flat. Best on windy days, or if line too long on tram/S3 to Klein Matterhorn.
  • The T-bars Grenzlift and Goba di Rollin that accesses the summit of the MAtterhorn Glacier Paradise/Klein Matterhorn appear to open summer only and allow download access from the Klein Matterhorn if the glacier/piste to Trockener Steg melts out. I have not seen these open on my vists in January, April or July.
  • Cervinia will keep its summit cable car Laghi Cime Bianch-Plateau Rosa open early in the summer until access to lower station melts out.

Zermatt Summer Ski
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Trockener Steg 6/22/22. The lower T-bars have melted out so the high T-bars are open for Klein Matterhorn downloading. Definitely a below average snow year.

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My visit in early July 2004. Hours 8am-1pm.

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Top T-bars not open in early July
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Looking over to Cervinia from Klein Materhorn
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Cervinia Plateau Rosa Tram
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Can ski to Trockener Steg
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April 20, 2018 Glacier Pics. Still packed powder.

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February 2018 Pics. Almost all T-bars open except the summit ones on Klein Matterhorn.

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