Where in the west

[ChrisC]

My guess is that the best "cultural fit" for most northeasterners would be the PNW, Portland and Seattle. Harvey's offline inquiries tended in that direction. Within the mountain states, I see James' point.

Well, maybe the Northeast and PNW are somewhat culturally similar, but often times people are moving for a change or to meet some need. I would not necessarily make it a default choice.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Spokane might be geographically well positioned, but I would rather be almost anywhere else for economic and day-to-day life reasons.

It seems like every month or so on the TGR board, there's a "stolen car/ski equipment/house burglary in Spokane" thread, followed by multiple posts in which people say how much they dislike Spokane. My brother travels there from Denver all the time and feels the same way.
What's the deal with that city?

I'm also curious about Tony's assertions that the PNW is a good cultural fit with the northeast. From an aesthetic/climatic standpoint, I get it , but I'm wondering why people who've lived their entire lives in one region would move across the country to live in a somewhat similar place but with bigger mountains. Personally, if I'm going to make that kind of life change, I'd prefer to try something different... hence, my questions to Harvey about what he'd like to do.

And I agree with Geoff. I really liked Ski Santa Fe; but I caught it when it had nice conditions... during the first week of December, no less. Sounds like Tony didn't get as lucky.

Edit: hah, Chris and I were thinking alike.

 

[Admin]

It seems like every month or so on the TGR board, there's a "stolen car/ski equipment/house burglary in Spokane" thread

Nowhere is immune from that. Skidog had his golf clubs stolen out of his garage in Sandy this summer. One of my colleagues in Sandy had his house robbed last week...while his family was sleeping inside.

And I agree with Geoff. I really liked Ski Santa Fe

Ditto:
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/index. ... le&sid=172

 

[Tony Crocker]

I'm wondering why people who've lived their entire lives in one region would move across the country to live in a somewhat similar place but with bigger mountains.

Because most of the easterners who post here like where they live, except for the erratic and frustrating ski conditions. Also, for the average person the rap on the PNW is the dreary weather with weeks on end of no sun. But I lived in New Jersey for 4 years and compared to NJ, Seattle/Portland weather is delightful.

 

[ChrisC]

Spokane might be geographically well positioned, but I would rather be almost anywhere else for economic and day-to-day life reasons.

It seems like every month or so on the TGR board, there's a "stolen car/ski equipment/house burglary in Spokane" thread, followed by multiple posts in which people say how much they dislike Spokane. My brother travels there from Denver all the time and feels the same way.
What's the deal with that city?

Spokane is a western city that is not really part of the 'New West'. More traditional industries...less tourism, tech, telecommuters, youth magnet, etc. Like how there is something (or was) to be desired about New England places such as Bridgeport, New Haven, Providence, or Springfield. Same could be said of Tacoma too. Not so bad, just not so good.

 

[ChrisC]

I'm wondering why people who've lived their entire lives in one region would move across the country to live in a somewhat similar place but with bigger mountains.

Because most of the easterners who post here like where they live, except for the erratic and frustrating ski conditions. Also, for the average person the rap on the PNW is the dreary weather with weeks on end of no sun. But I lived in New Jersey for 4 years and compared to NJ, Seattle/Portland weather is delightful.

I moved from Boston to Seattle. Partially, it was economic/career - late 90s tech, similar salary, more stock and a decrease in taxes/housing/living costs by at least 25%. But equally...just being able to ski/mountaineer/hike/etc...easy decision.

 

[Patrick]

I didn't add my 2 cents, but if I would choose to move to the US with skiing not being the unique factor (yeah, I live in Ottawa after all)...

I would choose (not in order, but East to West).

Portland
Boston
Burlington
Seattle
Portland

Never been to San Francisco, but from what I know about the place...I think I could like it.

However Tara (my almost 5 year old) was talking correlating snow, Christmas and Winter together. I told that it's doesn't meant that Christmas means snow and gave the example of my mother-in-law in France. Answer? I wouldn't want to live there... That exactly my feeling, although I'm not a kid anymore, I still want snow on my street. That is one of the reason why I wouldn't be happy in Vancouver.

Okay this is far from the topic, but did I see Portland and Seattle, I did like the feel of these places regardless of snow accumulation in the Winter months.

 

[jasoncapecod]

That exactly my feeling, although I'm not a kid anymore and still want snow on my street. That is one of the reason why I wouldn't be happy in Vancouver.

IMHO I think this is a great point. I have always had a pie in the sky fantasy about living out west. The best skiing , climbing etc… One problem (at least for me) is that all of the major cities get little or no snow. I love the snow. It is a high to watch and play in a snowstorm.
I also enjoy snowblowing my driveway :shock:

 

[EMSC]

Very interesting discussion. And very interesting choices. Pointing out an observation of the posts so far, it seems to me that every poster who currently lives in the west basically says 'go for it' as none of us has any real big complaints about our chosen location. But it would also seem that a lot of the folks who live in the east seem to have very specific criteria such as the snowfall in your backyard that has prevented them from really even considering such a move.

I grew up in upstate NY and spent a number of years in Buffalo area as well. However, living in the Boulder area for 10 years now, I can say that I enjoy the way things happen out here much better. Still get snow to see (~80" avg, last year ~120") and way more snow than that to ski on (plus no rain in mid-winter in the mountains to ruin the snowpack or surface conditions). It is definitely a mind shift from typical eastern weather to have things melt the next day basically every storm, but the frequent sunshine just makes things so much more enjoyable overall.

I guess my point is that I never hear skiers who have moved to anywhere in the west (that has easy ski access) complaining about their move. It seems to be primarily folks who are still living in the east that have debates or concerns about snowfall in the backyard or other things that really become very minor concerns or desires in life once you have access to all the outdoor activities, top notch skiing (with way more snow than any eastern city backyard gets), etc... such as a SLC, denver, portland, seattle, etc.. location gives you. Not sure if that comes across quite correctly now that I've written it, but my 2 cents would be if the option comes up, to 'just do it'. I rather highly doubt you'll look back with much regret.

 

[ChrisC]

That exactly my feeling, although I'm not a kid anymore and still want snow on my street. That is one of the reason why I wouldn't be happy in Vancouver.

IMHO I think this is a great point. I have always had a pie in the sky fantasy about living out west. The best skiing , climbing etc… One problem (at least for me) is that all of the major cities get little or no snow. I love the snow. It is a high to watch and play in a snowstorm.
I also enjoy snowblowing my driveway :shock:

Well, when I cross below the rain/snow line from the mountains down to the low lands -- I consider it a free car wash. A ski box is desirable to prevent rusted edges on skis though.

Snow is available every other year in dowtown Seattle.

And the NW is especially pretty in the winter. Pine trees keep is green year round. Soccer leagues play all winter. Running around any of the lakes (Green, Washington, Sammmamish) mid-winter without fear of ice - priceless.

I didn't need to sharpen my edges from 1998 to 2000...never hit a rock. Played with wax, but that's it. (Except for skis I brought to Telluride )

 

[Sharon]

However Tara (my almost 5 year old) was talking collerating snow, Christmas and Winter together.

I've reread this paragraph a few times and I cannot figure out if "collerating" is a typo or a Canadian word.

 

[Patrick]

I've reread this paragraph a few times and I cannot figure out if "collerating" is a typo or a Canadian word.

It's called dyslexia.

I meant to say "correlating".

 

[Patrick]

I guess my point is that I never hear skiers who have moved to anywhere in the west (that has easy ski access) complaining about their move. It seems to be primarily folks who are still living in the east that have debates or concerns about snowfall in the backyard or other things that really become very minor concerns or desires in life once you have access to all the outdoor activities, top notch skiing (with way more snow than any eastern city backyard gets), etc... such as a SLC, denver, portland, seattle, etc.. location gives you. Not sure if that comes across quite correctly now that I've written it, but my 2 cents would be if the option comes up, to 'just do it'. I rather highly doubt you'll look back with much regret.

Sorry, I was talking about myself. I like the snow in my backyard (December-March), I like Winter and walking in snow, but there are also others factors at play in my choice not to move. (this was also true when I couldn't ski most of the Winter because of injuries).

And the NW is especially pretty in the winter. Pine trees keep is green year round. Soccer leagues play all winter. Running around any of the lakes (Green, Washington, Sammmamish) mid-winter without fear of ice - priceless.

I'm sure it's great, but I personally love the great contrast in the season, not only in the country and mountain, but in the city where I live.

 

[jasoncapecod]

Sorry, I was talking about myself. I like the snow in my backyard (December-March), I like Winter and walking in snow, but there are also others factors at play in my choice not to move. (this was also true when I couldn't ski most of the Winter because of injuries).

you hit right on the head

 

[ChrisC]

If I had to pick a place based mostly on skiing, I would chose SLC - specifically the Park City or Southeast SLC foothill burbs. Slight preference to Park City since there is snow on the ground.

Not only high quality, reasonable UT skiing - but located 5-6 hrs from Jackson, WY, and Telluride, CO. And really nice National Parks too!

 

[J.Spin]

I guess my point is that I never hear skiers who have moved to anywhere in the west (that has easy ski access) complaining about their move.

Well, you can say you heard it here first

It seems to be primarily folks who are still living in the east that have debates or concerns about snowfall in the backyard or other things that really become very minor concerns or desires in life once you have access to all the outdoor activities, top notch skiing (with way more snow than any eastern city backyard gets), etc... such as a SLC, denver, portland, seattle, etc.. location gives you.

Actually, I’m exaggerating in my initial statement above, because we loved our years in Montana, but it is fun to be able to bring some different perspective to the conversation. I absolutely don’t want to discourage anyone from checking out the Western U.S. In fact, I encourage anyone that is thinking about it (especially if they are into skiing) to go for it. But, there are certain considerations in moving to some of the popular Western U.S. cities that will be important to some people. Most people will tell you that it’s a bed of roses moving out to a place like Salt Lake City, or Boise etc., because for them… it probably is. The average person is going to be thrilled to be so close to great skiing, but have minimal if any snowpack in their yard all winter. They may love the fact that there is so much sun and less volatility in the weather. They may also love the fact that the environment is generally quite dry. In fact, for many people that’s probably heaven.

But then of course there may be folks who find that a lack of cold/ice/snow at the house is inhibitory toward many local winter activities, the considerable stretches of constant sunshine are monotonous, and the hot dry summers aren’t fun to sit through.

Coming from Northern Vermont, the fact that there was no snow in the valleys throughout most of the winter was probably the biggest shock I encountered when I moved out to Montana. I had been on numerous ski trips to the Western U.S. before actually moving there, but the fact that there was rarely snow in the valleys didn’t hit me until I actually lived there. I hadn’t really thought about it on ski trips, as I’d either stayed up at the resort where there was snow, or assumed it was just one of those occasions when there wasn’t any snow in the valley. Prior to moving to the Bitterroot Valley of Montana, I already knew that the annual snowfall there was around 40 inches. Sure it was only about half of what Burlington got, but I figured it wouldn’t be a big deal. What I didn’t know was that it was 40 inches of snow that didn’t usually stick around on the ground. It was rare to even get a substantial snowstorm of more than six inches, and even then it would melt away pretty quickly. It was frustrating to have only one or two occasions all year where we could snowshoe out to the park, or do some cross country skiing around the neighborhood, or go sledding in the yard etc. Sure there was always snow in the mountains so we could go up there and take part in these activities (and we sometimes did), but who wants to have to head to the mountains all the time to take part in the type of simple winter activities that you can do at home? It seemed like a bit of a downer to have brown grass around all winter when you were used to having it covered with white. But again, that’s perspective and preference. Many people could care less about having snow at their actual house to play in, they’d just as soon not have to shovel it or drive in it.

There’s no doubt that there’s great skiing in the Western U.S., and there’s no doubt that the average skier is going to encounter substantially better average conditions than what you’ll find in the Eastern U.S. You’re going to find more steep terrain, more skiing above tree line, more variety, etc. But, as we've talked about here on the forums in the past, the fantastic nature of the skiing is sort of overblown for some people. Out here in Vermont we get the same 300 inches of snow at our local ski area that we did at our local ski area back in Montana, on fairly similar terrain. However, last year we also got over 150 inches of snow at the house in the valley, and surpassed three feet of snowpack in the yard on two separate occasions. For those that want to take part in snow-related winter activities around the house, that’s a big bonus. It’s also possible to strap on the skins right at the door and head up into the backcountry for skiing, which wasn’t really an option for us in Montana. There are only so many places in the country where you can live in reasonable everyday “non-resort” areas close to work/population centers and have the option to head out your door and up into the mountains for turns. Some people could probably care less about having that option, but some might value it very highly. Every place is going to have its downsides. One of the downsides in New England is that thaws are more frequent than some of the higher-elevation areas in the Western U.S. So, if your schedule is fixed and you can’t follow Mother Nature in terms of snowstorms, you’re not going to have soft snow on every trip the slopes. But, if your schedule is flexible and you don’t feel the need to ski every weekend, it’s not much of a downside. Still, these are the types of considerations that might make the Western U.S. less than an obvious knockout punch for relocation in some people’s eyes. Is a step up in average ski day conditions at the resorts that I visit 20 days a year worth not being able to take my morning jaunt around the property on my x-c skis? To some people it could be an issue.

If someone’s main focus is going to be resort-based skiing and they just want consistently decent “average” conditions on the slopes, then heading to a place like the Rockies is an absolute no-brainer. But, if other aspects of skiing, snow, weather, and lifestyle are a part of the equation (since this thread was about lifestyle change) the choice of location might not be as simple. Anyway, I’m playing devil’s advocate to some degree in this post to help out with the discussion, but I figured I’d provide a somewhat different perspective. Most skiers that have moved out to the Western U.S. for the skiing have done so because they liked the environment, so generally they will recommend it to others.

Actually, we haven’t ruled out moving west again some day in the future, although if we did, I think we’d want to shoot for a place like Whitefish or Fernie, where there seems to be (at least somewhat) more consistent snowpack in the valley. The usual line about the grass being greener in the Western U.S. for skiers is often true, especially if all you care about is the grass. However, if the rest of the yard matters much to you, then you have to take that into account as well.

After I used that analogy I realized that, ironically, some of the best ski regions are supposedly associated with brown grass, which turned out to be one of the ad nauseam debates on SkiVT-L this summer.

J.Spin

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I've never posted a thread about it, but I've always wanted to know if I was the only person on these ski forums who actually chose to move back east after a substantial amount of time -- well, nine years -- living out west.

For most people, it is, as JSpin called it, a bed of roses, but not everyone has the same expectations or connection to where they come from... something a "Top 10 places to live and ski" doesn't necessarily address.

 

[J.Spin]

…we are dreaming about a less east coast life style.

I’m beginning to see that many people take the whole relocation process very seriously. Rick Kominowski is a skier that has approached SkiVT-L for information about relocating, and seems to have some of the same concerns presented here. I actually sent him off to check out some of the same links to threads that Admin posted for you at the beginning of this discussion. You might get some useful information from checking out his SkiVT-L discussion threads - I was immediately reminded of his queries when you wrote about your situation. Here are some threads to check out for information (use the “NEXT IN TOPIC” link in the menu above the messages to follow the threads):

http://list.uvm.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind07 ... 946D0F4EA4

http://list.uvm.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind07 ... 946D0F4EA4

http://list.uvm.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind07 ... 946D0F4EA4

After rereading all of Admins links - (thank you VERY much) - I want to add Burlington in the mix…

Burlington is the area I know the most about, so that’s where I can contribute the best information to this discussion. Again, for most people that already have experience living/skiing in the Eastern U.S., I would just say check out somewhere in the Western U.S. for a change of pace, but since you added Burlington to your list and seem to enjoy Eastern-style backcountry based on the descriptions of your cabin, I guess some information about the Burlington area would be of interest. In terms of lift-serviced terrain, the bigger-name mountains like Stowe, Smuggler’s Notch, Sugarbush, and Mad River Glen are roughly 45-60 minutes away from Burlington proper (depending on what part of the city you’re coming from and what the road conditions are like). The Green Mountains are only about 15 minutes to the east of town, but the reason it takes so long to get to the ski areas mentioned above is because they are on the east side of the range. Bolton Valley is the only ski resort in the immediate Burlington area that is more on the west side of the Greens, but it still takes about 30 minutes to get to Bolton because it’s way up in a box canyon-type of area that is accessed only from the south by a long access road. All the ski areas mentioned above have summit elevations in the 3,000’ to 4,000’ range, and if you look at the map I attached to this post, you’ll see that they all sit roughly on the county borders of Chittenden/Addison counties on the west, and Lamoille/Washington counties on the east. That county line division that runs from north to south (dark black line on the attached map) roughly marks the high-elevation spine of the Green Mountains. It’s what you have to get around to get from Burlington to many of the ski areas, and why there are only three main routes connecting the east and the west sides of the range in the greater Burlington area. I’ve got the three main east-west travel corridors roughly marked in gray on the attached map. To the north there’s Route 15 (Lamoille Valley), in the center there’s the I-89/Route 2 corridor (Winooski Valley), and to the south there’s Route 17 (Appalachian Gap). Off the Green Mountain spine in the Burlington area, there’s also Cochran’s ski area, which is only about 15-20 minutes out of town. It is a much smaller, lower-elevation ski area than the others (30 acres, 500’ vertical, summit elevation 1,000’). I’ve skied there before and it’s a fun hill, although it seems most popular with kids and racers. It’s still a neat place to visit on occasion for a taste of an old-school family run ski area.

I want to be BETWEEN the city and the mountains so I don't have to drive THROUGH the city to get to the good stuff.

In the case of Burlington, I don’t think that people worry too much about having to drive through the city, because it’s not all that big to begin with – and you can only live so far away from the mountains before you’re actually in Lake Champlain (see the attached map). There can be traffic at times (like rush hour of course) but it’s nothing near the scale of big cities. Traffic of the sort where you are at standstill almost exclusively occurs when there is a red traffic light ahead of you, or when there’s some sort of construction or accident. Even during rush hour in the Burlington area, I’ve never seen the sort of highway traffic that just sits there and doesn’t move for some unknown reason. There are a lot more cars on the road during rush hour, but you can still travel at around the speed limit on the interstate. Basically, even with rush hours included, once you know the city I doubt you’d find yourself in significant traffic at any time for more than 10 minutes. So, if there was the possibility of living in town so that you could walk to work (the way you mentioned you do it now), it certainly wouldn’t be a big deal. I lived in downtown Burlington and walked to school/work for seven years (1993-2000) and never thought twice about any complications of the city/traffic slowing me down on my way to the slopes – the only worry was if there were any powderhounds on the road ahead of me.

With that said, if someone worked in Burlington and was willing to car/bus commute and give up the walk to work option, I still think it’s better to live on the east side of the Burlington area toward the mountains if you are going to do a lot of skiing. It just cuts down on the drive time to the slopes. In terms of living between Burlington and the mountains, there are lots of great options. You can essentially choose whatever distance between Burlington and the mountains you’d like to live, and in the examples I provide below, you can subtract the Burlington commute time from your drive time to the slopes. I’ve arbitrarily created a few tiers of distance to simplify the description, and you’ll find the towns color-coded on the attached map. The most Burlington-biased towns would be places like South Burlington (tier one, ~5-10 minutes out of Burlington), Essex, Williston, St. George, and Hinesburg (tier two, about 10-15 minutes out of Burlington). Once you get beyond that point, you are pretty much going to be IN the mountains, or at least the western foothills. The tier three distance from Burlington would include towns like Richmond, Huntington, Jericho and Underhill. These areas are roughly 15-25 minutes out of Burlington, depending on exactly where in these towns you live. There’s a higher degree of drive-time variability from these areas to Burlington, since you are getting into the mountains and that can dictate the layout of the roads. For tier four I would include places like Bolton, Waterbury, Duxbury, and Starksboro, where we’re talking about 25-40 minutes out of Burlington. Things start to change when you hit tier four because you are definitely well into the mountains, along the spine, and you can only get through to the east side via the three corridors (Route 15, Route 2/I-89, and Route 17) that I mentioned earlier in this message . So, depending on the town, you will start to sacrifice distance to some of the ski areas I listed while being closer to others. Tier five locations are places like Fayston, Waitsfield, Warren, Buels Gore, Stowe, Morristown, Johnson, and Cambridge. At that point you are going to be 40-60 minutes out of Burlington, and you’re on the eastern side of the Green Mountains as well. However, by then you are basically IN the ski towns, so that has its own advantages.

I don't want to trade a 5 hr ride for a 2 hour ride - I want to have great day skiing close. From what I can tell some of the Burlington gang have a functional dawn patrol going on a work day....heaven.

There are various people in the Burlington area who do both dawn patrol and/or dusk patrol, and some who even do night patrol with high-powered headlamps. There are several people on the SkiVT-L listserv/forum that take part in these outings, and put out calls to others on the list that are interested, so it’s a great resource for the area. You can literally ski every day during the season if you really want to, even if you have a regular-style work schedule. One of the bonuses of living in the Burlington area (and more so the towns to the east in the foothills and mountains), is the usual presence of a winter snowpack down to the valley. If you live in an area that I categorized as tiers 3 through 5, you can easily have substantial backcountry skiing from your own door. Obviously not every house in theses areas is going to have that option, but you could certainly pick one that did if that was a priority. We didn’t even choose our place in Waterbury with that in mind, but it turns out that we can head right out from the house up into the backcountry to the south of Bolton Valley. Not everyone is interested in that sort of access, but again, based on your descriptions of your cabin, you might be into that sort of thing. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, there are only so many places in the country where you can combine close commuting distance to a city, reasonable housing prices, sufficient valley snowfall/snowpack, and substantial skiable vertical out your back door. Every location in the country is going to have its own unique attributes; the presence of easy-access backcountry skiing options happens to be a pretty cool one about the Burlington area.

I 'd love to have real estate that is cheaper than the northeast corridor, so we don't get killed selling one house and buying another.

The Burlington area and the ski towns are the most expensive places for housing in this area. I’m sure housing costs in Burlington are less than the big cities on the coast, but I don’t know how they compare to the outskirts of the big cities. In the area between Burlington and the resort towns (see the attached map), the housing prices are pretty reasonable, but I don’t really have much sense for comparison outside this area because we’ve only shopped here. Rick Kominowski checked out real estate in the Burlington area on his scouting trip, and reported his findings to SkiVT-L:

http://list.uvm.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind07 ... 946D0F4EA4

Perhaps others in the forum who are more familiar with housing costs throughout the country can comment on how the Burlington area and surroundings compare.

I don't want to live in the city but close enough for an energy efficient commute. …I'd like to be on the east side of town - not far from the end of whatever mass transit there might be.

As far as Burlington goes, the only practical option for mass transit that I know of is bus service. There’s been on and off commuter rail service for the towns to the south of Burlington (Shelburne, Charlotte, etc.) but there just doesn’t seem to be enough participation to really make it stick yet. The Burlington network of bus routes is substantial however. In the greater Burlington area, there are CCTA (Chittenden County Transportation Authority) bus routes everywhere, and for the outlying towns, commuter bus service runs all the way out to Montpelier and even Stowe.

CCTA runs the commuter route between Burlington and Montpelier that services the I-89/Route 2 corridor:

http://www.cctaride.org/main.php/BusInf ... LINKXpress

And GMTA (Green Mountain Transit Agency) runs the commuter bus that comes down Route 100 from Morristown/Stowe to Waterbury (the east side of the spine):

http://www.gmtaride.org/main.php/BusInf ... 00Commuter

Commuting into Burlington from the Stowe area requires a transfer in Waterbury, but people certainly do it, and I know because they transfer to the route that I take. Most days I take one of the buses from Waterbury into Burlington and then one of the others back again in the evening, unless I’ve got something else to do (skiing, errands, etc.) at which point I’ll head into work by car. These are commuter routes, so there are only a couple of stops. That means the trip is quite quick for commuters, although it also means that there might not be a stop right near your house, so you’ll need to walk, bike, or drive your car for a bit to get to the bus. In my case I’m about 3 miles from the Waterbury stop, so I usually drive, but there are also people that walk and bike to the bus stops. As far as the cost of riding the bus goes, its $4 per ride for the Montpelier route, so the closer you are to Burlington, the less cost-effective it is. My commute into Burlington isn’t that long (24.4 miles, ~25 minutes or so) so in terms of fuel costs vs. bus costs, it’s close to a wash. The bus cost can go down some however if you buy a monthly or yearly pass. But, if there wasn’t a significant cost savings, the potential environmental aspects are there, and the extra hour of time to do work during the ride each day is a bonus over driving. Fortunately, various businesses subsidize the cost of riding the bus for their employees (for example the university subsidizes 100% for faculty/staff/students, and the hospital subsidizes some percentage as well for their employees). Since I work at the university, the financial incentive they provide to ride the bus is far too tempting to overlook.

Unfortunately, I can’t provide the same level of detail about living in the Missoula area, or near the other cities in Montana. We lived near Missoula, but we were still 45-60 minutes away (in the Bitterroot Valley). We both worked in Hamilton so we didn’t do a daily commute to the city. We did head into Missoula quite a bit, but you don’t learn about the nuances of the city to the degree that you do if you actually live there. As far as public transportation goes, it seems to be a bit less than what exists in the Burlington area. Missoula certainly has city busses (Mountain Line):

http://www.mountainline.com/

but as far as out of town commuting goes, the most I saw from Hamilton was one of those small ride-share style busses.

In terms of Montana skiing, I put together a collection of short synopses on the Montana ski areas in one of the other “Where to Live” threads:

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... ght=#17807

so you can take a look at that and see if it interests you. If you decide you want to pursue something in Montana, I can talk a little more about the area.

Well, I guess that response went on for a while, but this topic of “relocating as a skier” seems to come up a lot, so hopefully this message will serve as a reference for folks considering a Burlington-area move in the future.

J.Spin

 

[Admin]

Burlington is the area I know the most about, so that’s where I can contribute the best information to this discussion.

Wow, no kidding! :shock:

 

[Harvey]

I've been out of town on business and in addition, recently DROPPED my laptop (BIG mistake) so I have been out of touch. The info in this thread is awesome and overwhelming, but I'm going to (re) read it very thoroughly.

Jspin your willingness to put your input into articulate, thoughtful, written form is really appreciated. One thing...I wouldn't really think traffic would be a big issue in Btown. I was thinking more like in western cities...denver,portland, seattle.

This may be obviously but one thing I like about Burlington... it's near the Northern Vt area...those big noreasters go through...everybody up and down gets the 6-24 inches and the radar shows persistent after effects along that spine...it just keeps snowing. 70% of the time you guys get the most in the east. I guess that's the upslope thing combined with lake enhancement? Not sure but it is real.

Another thing is our property in the adirondacks..I love it and could keep it if I lived in Vt. It's adjacent to a large wilderness and no matter how warm winters get...that's going to be a sweet spot.

I've heard about Bolton Valley...sounds like a good place to teach kids, and close so they can go out for short periods of time. And if conditions are sweet Dad could get up early...head to any one the mountains up there and be home mid afternoon with his ya yas out.

To clarify what I meant about the east coast lifestyle...my definition is the relentless pursuit of money to the exclusion of a meaningful life. It's exhausting to participate in and a real risk, in many ways.

Everyone thanks for all of this...I'm going to study it all.

Mark