snowbird surfer
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3/24 was memorable. Burning money and time trying to get back to that moment... perhaps it was one and done?
Zermatt: Rote Nase Cable Car Policy / Hohtälli zone
- Thread starter ChrisC
- Start date
3/24 was memorable. Burning money and time trying to get back to that moment... perhaps it was one and done?
When are you coming to Europe?
Courmayeur off piste descends to the valley floor, where coverage may not be adequate. Grands Montets still does not have its upper tram. ChrisC would tell you to consider the heliskiing in Courmayeur.
For off piste you might want to look at Verbier, which is forecast for 20 inches in the upcoming storm, twice as much as Courmayeur.
The places that will get hit the hardest in Austria from the Nordstau have had a very lean season so far.
I may be confined to skiing on piste, which is fine for the remaining 3 days in Zermatt and likely day in Saas-Fee.
I believe that’s when ChrisC scored the off piste couloirs in the Dolomites. Our last late season trip to Europe was in 2022 and we knew the southern Alps were bad then. Wasn’t that known in 2025 also?
Here in Zermatt the coverage on Hohtalli is adequate. The issue is that the snow is tracked, then stiffened by wind. The wind could create smooth windbuff as it did our first day here in 2014, but not this time.
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snowbird surfer
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Landing 6:45 3/29. Presently holding lodging in Alagna that night. Was planning to ski there 3/29/30 then head to either Cervinia/Zermatt... or Courmayer/Grands Montet. I am flexible and things can change based on actual snowfall. Wepowder is showing 10-15 CM in and around Punta Indren by 3/29. 15 goes a long way in Monterosa as skier density is effectively zero. Cervinia Zermatt with 15-20. Courmayer 30/40 (on Arp/South side of Monte Bianco respectively) and more at GM. Powder competition likely VERY high at GM. I have no idea if there is a feeding frenzy in Courmayer. My main point of reference is LCC. I held a season pass in 1999/2000 and skied/boarded 80+ days in peace. Now I routinely find myself at Solitude then Wolverine cirque or on Broad Fork twins (Bonkers/East Twin etc) to avoid the crowds...
snowbird surfer
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I thought the lack of upper tram would mean peaceful skinning but I've seen SM posts with hoards in the lineup... can anyone here comment on the skin track scene at Grands Montet on a powder day?
I still think Verbier is the more promising choice for off piste. Drive distance from Aosta is short through the St. Bernard tunnel. Don't take my word for it. ChrisC is an off piste skier of snowbird surfer's caliber, and here's his detail TR from 2019.
10-15cm in Monterosa will not cut it over a sun and likely wind affected base. Yes the snowpack is good, but you will likely have the situation I have in Zermatt, mostly skiing on piste. And at least Zermatt pistes above 8,000 feet are mostly north facing and still have winter snow. There is very little north facing in the Monterosa. Jimmy Petterson was in the Monterosa last week and skied no off piste: first too dangerous, then mashed potatoes.
I’d be suspicious of Chamonix. It’s a freeride mecca and the lift served footprint is not that big by Euro standards. Out of bounds you need a guide unless you know the area really well from prior experience.
The upcoming storm is coming directly from the north. 20 inch ballpark predictions apply to the French resorts in the Tarantaise and farther north, Verbier and the Val d'Annivers, and northern edge Swiss resorts like the Jungfrau and Engelberg. South of that line, Maurienne Valley, high Upper Rhone behind the Jungfrau like Zermatt, anything in Italy, more like 4-6 inches. The biggest forecasts are in Austria, but how much base is there since the season there has been extremely lean up to now?
10-15cm in Monterosa will not cut it over a sun and likely wind affected base. Yes the snowpack is good, but you will likely have the situation I have in Zermatt, mostly skiing on piste. And at least Zermatt pistes above 8,000 feet are mostly north facing and still have winter snow. There is very little north facing in the Monterosa. Jimmy Petterson was in the Monterosa last week and skied no off piste: first too dangerous, then mashed potatoes.
I’d be suspicious of Chamonix. It’s a freeride mecca and the lift served footprint is not that big by Euro standards. Out of bounds you need a guide unless you know the area really well from prior experience.
The upcoming storm is coming directly from the north. 20 inch ballpark predictions apply to the French resorts in the Tarantaise and farther north, Verbier and the Val d'Annivers, and northern edge Swiss resorts like the Jungfrau and Engelberg. South of that line, Maurienne Valley, high Upper Rhone behind the Jungfrau like Zermatt, anything in Italy, more like 4-6 inches. The biggest forecasts are in Austria, but how much base is there since the season there has been extremely lean up to now?
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snowbird surfer
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Good advice. In the meantime, let's hope this Nordstau over performs!
snowbird surfer
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How are on piste conditions? Crowds? Thx!
Crowds not an issue where we were skiing, probably busiest around Sunnega. Wednesday we were up high on Klein Matterhorn side and Plateau Rosa, all winter snow above 8,000 feet. There was more manmade subsurface on Rothorn/Sunnega side, but we did not hit anything severely scraped down.
We did not even have crowds on end of day descents from Kumme Tuesday ~3:15 and Schwarzsee Wednesday ~2:30. I think a lot of people here download at end of the day. Final descents below 2,000 meters were slushy but manageable.
We did not ski yesterday when pistes were harder at 15F and overcast. People in spa from Miami said it was difficult though there was new snow reported.
We never skied Gornergrat and are leaving this morning and skiing Saas-Fee.
We did not even have crowds on end of day descents from Kumme Tuesday ~3:15 and Schwarzsee Wednesday ~2:30. I think a lot of people here download at end of the day. Final descents below 2,000 meters were slushy but manageable.
We did not ski yesterday when pistes were harder at 15F and overcast. People in spa from Miami said it was difficult though there was new snow reported.
We never skied Gornergrat and are leaving this morning and skiing Saas-Fee.
snowbird surfer
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Appreciate the report and safe travels.
snowbird surfer
New member
Not sure how to start a thread, so I'll post this question here. Does anyone have beta on Becs des Rosses? Xtreme Verbier is running the free ski comp on Becs today. That means control work has been done and the face should be (relatively) safe this coming week. 8-10 inches forecasted through 4/1 so light refresh but minimal if any increase in avalanche risk. Seems like it's setting up very well for strike mission on 3/31-4/3. Am I on target? Has anyone here skied it? Have a guide reference? Thanks in advance!
ChrisC
Well-known member
I have been avoiding the Les Grand Montets for almost 10 years now. It's been the equivalent of Jackson Hole missing its tram. Too sad. Herse lift and Pendant Bowl can offer great powder, but if just chalky - one really misses the summit tram serving its glaciers and backcountry itineraries.
The most interesting expert routes in Chamonix would be Aiguille du Midi cable car (Envers runs), but more importantly in the Spring; the north side under the cable car: Glacier Rond, Cosmiques and others. You would need to hire a guide familiar with your ability to get on any of these (likely one day on lesser routes or previous relationship) I have not yet skied any of these.
Courmayeur's east facing runs might be questionable by March and can have horrendous runouts in poor snow years (this year ok). It's north-facing off-piste is likely ok, but contains substantial flat runouts. Slow going in Spring.
I think the best 3 in Europe are St Anton, Val d'Isere and Verbier.
- Verbier for easily accessible lapable steeps that are semi-skier compacted due yellow itineraries. For me, it's simply the best for multi run, high vertical skiing.
- Val d'Isere. Great for extensive high-altitude, snow sure expert terrain that requires a bit more effort than Verbier, but can often touring and powder pockets longer. If less powder, its couloir come into play due to stability - especially Tignes side.
- St. Anton/Zurs/Rendl/Lech. Just so much fun skiing through bowls, trees, distant villages - low expert to expert sweet spots with usually great snowfall in January & February. There are epic steeps too!
I will return to a Chamonix-Verbier-Val Anniviers (Zinal-Grimentz)-Monterosa-Courmayeur circuit maybe next year. Or my multi-year delayed Austrian circuit due to bad snow for the last 2 winters.
The best skiing the winter was France by a wide margin (Val d'Isere/Les Arcs/Ste Foy/La Grave) and some of western Switzerland. I had too much snow in La Grave for new extreme routes, but epic powdery repeats on some classic descents.
Engelberg, Andermatt and Murren are great resorts for this North Stau weather pattern - the first two with superior exposure but Murren is no slouch as a semi-private ski area with little off-piste competition.
snowbird surfer
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Sadly, we did not get to Verbier. Skied 4 days in Zermatt with great fun in the Hohtalli zone and one day skinning the Breithorn/descent into Cervinia. Finished with two days at Grands Montets. I loved the place. No tram = untracked lines for those willing to skin. I skinned up to the petit aiguille de vert on both days and had sweet north facing lines with relatively cold snow on de Lognan. Also, skinned and skied the short 20 minute route out to point de'vue a couple of times. Cold snow on Friday followed by corn Saturday. Fun turns with incredible views over the Argentiere glacier. This was my first time skiing GM... reminded me of Snowbird on steroids with every inch of every surface skiable. The steep frontside tree lines to the base were also in play. I used the OUT map app for some route planning but mostly talked to locals and shadow toured. The touring community is friendly and happy to share intel. They carry the kitchen sink and so they are mellow on the track and not particularly fast. Plenty of open space for light and fast touring. Separately, the local community is really living the dream. A crew I ran into at the petit de vert, geared up then paraglided off the snowfield over to the Dru where they camped for the night. They planed for a mixed climb summit push the following morning. Awesome!
How much wind effect/sastrugi on Zermatt's off-piste? Report said only 8 inches new snow and a lot of wind.
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snowbird surfer
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Jet-lagged atm so my writing and recollection might be blurry...
Sunday arrival - rental suffered a flat crossing Simplon pass so did not have time to ski
Monday - snow showers with good to very good lines on the north facing terrain leading into the lower Patrullarve lift on Rothorn. Short but sweet. I can send topo from out map at a later time.
Tuesday - full day off of the Gant tram - general soft turns to skiers' right and left; 4-10 inches depending on aspect. Mildly wind affected on the most wind exposed ridges. I don't worry much about my skis so I was charging between the rocks where the snow was still quite soft. Had somewhere between 12-14 runs and marked up the whole place.
Wednesday - Started on backside of Rothorn - wind blasted... so back to Hohtalli but the majority of the face was severely wind affected too; only two runs then headed over to a surprisingly excellent Hirli. Some power turns up high then sweet tree skiing down low. Conditions were 6/10 but the coverage allowed for long steep gladed runs... 30-45 degrees according to the topo. I skied more of these lines last week than during my prior 3/24 trip.
Thursday - A few hot laps on groomers then skinned the Breithorn. Surprisingly soft. I skinned it in January during a visit to Cervinia and used crampons along the ridge. This time I skinned right to the top, No blue ice to the skier's left on the descent. My teens sent the line then nearly bit it when they hit the transition to the windblown plateau at 50 mph!
Edited Zermatt go list (after 3 visits)
Rothorn depth - 170 cm, not 120 cm
recent snowfall of 50+ cm
avoid after strong N/NW winds as this does compromise surface conditions
if cold storm, head to Hirli for some of the best steep tree lines outside of the Monashees
Sunday arrival - rental suffered a flat crossing Simplon pass so did not have time to ski
Monday - snow showers with good to very good lines on the north facing terrain leading into the lower Patrullarve lift on Rothorn. Short but sweet. I can send topo from out map at a later time.
Tuesday - full day off of the Gant tram - general soft turns to skiers' right and left; 4-10 inches depending on aspect. Mildly wind affected on the most wind exposed ridges. I don't worry much about my skis so I was charging between the rocks where the snow was still quite soft. Had somewhere between 12-14 runs and marked up the whole place.
Wednesday - Started on backside of Rothorn - wind blasted... so back to Hohtalli but the majority of the face was severely wind affected too; only two runs then headed over to a surprisingly excellent Hirli. Some power turns up high then sweet tree skiing down low. Conditions were 6/10 but the coverage allowed for long steep gladed runs... 30-45 degrees according to the topo. I skied more of these lines last week than during my prior 3/24 trip.
Thursday - A few hot laps on groomers then skinned the Breithorn. Surprisingly soft. I skinned it in January during a visit to Cervinia and used crampons along the ridge. This time I skinned right to the top, No blue ice to the skier's left on the descent. My teens sent the line then nearly bit it when they hit the transition to the windblown plateau at 50 mph!
Edited Zermatt go list (after 3 visits)
Rothorn depth - 170 cm, not 120 cm
recent snowfall of 50+ cm
avoid after strong N/NW winds as this does compromise surface conditions
if cold storm, head to Hirli for some of the best steep tree lines outside of the Monashees
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I was deterred by that wind report 3/26. And the Miami couple in the spa did not like conditions that day, though I'm sure they did not venture off piste. I had already aggravated my knee with the short Hohtalli off piste pitch on 3/24, so we decided to leave Zermatt, ski an on-piste day at at Saas-Fee, then try Ovrannaz which reported 28 inches from the storm. At that point I did not know whether we would have to cut the skiing short if my knee got worse.
I guess the wind effect on Hohtalli off-piste is a real crapshoot. It's great you got that window last Tuesday, and adequate visibility to utilize it. In Portes du Soleil the visibility did not get good enough for much off piste above tree line until Wednesday, our last day there.
Yes, that's where we skied some on bad vis days in 2014.
Interesting. On our last run on piste #51 on 3/25 about 2:30 the piste leading to Hirli was marked closed. In 2014 we skied the #59 and #60 skiroutes in powder but they end on #51 and you have to ski down to Furi.
I guess the wind effect on Hohtalli off-piste is a real crapshoot. It's great you got that window last Tuesday, and adequate visibility to utilize it. In Portes du Soleil the visibility did not get good enough for much off piste above tree line until Wednesday, our last day there.