Eastern closing dates thread 2008-2009

[rfarren]

I know that Mont Miller doesn't have any snowmaking and I'm pretty sure Mont Comi doesn't have any either. Those mountain still have wall-to-wall coverage as Valinouet and Val d'Irène on their last day of the season last Sunday.

These are the remote places in Gaspesie or Saguenay. Most easterners could get to SLC or Denver in less time.

Although, if there were a resort in the chic chocs that was lift serviced on the scale of lets say 2000-2500 acres, and there were air service. I guarantee you, more would go there for long weekend trips than to Colorado.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

if there were a resort in the chic chocs that was lift serviced on the scale of lets say 2000-2500 acres, and there were air service. I guarantee you, more would go there for long weekend trips than to Colorado.

I agree in principle that the Chic Chocs would be a unique destination (desolate, undeveloped, rural Quebec culture, etc.) compared to the industrial tourism of the Rockies, but even if an airline offered scheduled air service from our area, there's no way it would be remotely competitive fare-wise with Denver or Salt Lake. For example, unless you get a last-minute weekend fare to Quebec City ($129-ish on Continental from Newark, a great deal), it's usually $300-400 for a 90-minute flight. I assume the Newark to Tremblant flight ain't cheap either. I could imagine how much they'd charge for a flight to Gaspesie from a NYC airport.

 

[J.Spin]

Although, if there were a resort in the chic chocs that was lift serviced on the scale of lets say 2000-2500 acres, and there were air service. I guarantee you, more would go there for long weekend trips than to Colorado.

Even without a resort there, the Chic Chocs have long been a drivable destination for a lot of folks in the more northern parts of New England (and presumably Quebec), and I suspect it's getting more popular as time goes on and backcountry skiing grows. This is spring break weekend for the boys, and E and I were talking about the possibilities for bigger ski trips in this relatively late timeframe as they get older. We talked about Banff and Colorado, but also the Chic Chocs, which saves the hassle of having to deal with airlines. Most folks that I've talked to seem to go with a week, or slightly reduced week-style trip when they visit the Chic Chocs from this area, but in their usual style, the UVM/Dartmouth guys just seemed to pop up there for the weekend a little while ago. I think those guys do a nice job with the photography, so you can get an idea of some of the terrain from their trip report. I'm sure a resort there would piss a lot of people off, but I bet it could become quite popular at this time of year once the word got out.

-J

 

[rfarren]

if there were a resort in the chic chocs that was lift serviced on the scale of lets say 2000-2500 acres, and there were air service. I guarantee you, more would go there for long weekend trips than to Colorado.

I agree in principle that the Chic Chocs would be a unique destination (desolate, undeveloped, rural Quebec culture, etc.) compared to the industrial tourism of the Rockies, but even if an airline offered scheduled air service from our area, there's no way it would be remotely competitive fare-wise with Denver or Salt Lake. For example, unless you get a last-minute weekend fare to Quebec City ($129-ish on Continental from Newark, a great deal), it's usually $300-400 for a 90-minute flight. I assume the Newark to Tremblant flight ain't cheap either. I could imagine how much they'd charge for a flight to Gaspesie from a NYC airport.

The operational costs would be far less going to gaspesie compared to SLC or DEN. My guess would be that if the skiing were superior to the east, as it would be, and more or less equal with out west in terms of snow and terrain, again it would be, people would go. If enough people go it becomes very affordable to fly there. Firstly, it is not a great distance which opens up turbo-props and other high effinciency planes. Airfare to Montreal should be on average $200 cheaper than going to slc or den (operational cost). You could do seasonal airfare, akin to what they do with steamboat, and it would be sustainable. From my experience flights also tend to be cheaper out of JFK than Newark. I don't know why but that is what I've experienced.

 

[rfarren]

I'm sure a resort there would piss a lot of people off, but I bet it could become quite popular at this time of year once the word got out.

It would certainly anger some. Just a hypothetical...what if mont tremblant was at the base of those mountains. It would be like a trip to the "mini-alps." I bet it would be very popular wiht east coasters near major cities.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

In many cases, airline pricing has very little to do with operational costs and efficiencies. It's more about competition. Unless the government regulates traffic, an airline without a competitor on a given route can charge whatever the market will bear.

How do you explain pricing to places like Jackson Hole? Even a northeastern city like Syracuse is instructive... once the airlines start pulling out (reduced competition), the remaining ones can raise fares until people stop flying.

 

[rfarren]

Good point. It better be one hell of a resort!

 

[Marc_C]

You guys are comparing air fares to major US cities where there are still lifts spinning to obscure Canadian destinations where even in the thick of winter there are still no lifts, thus appealing to less than 10% (or perhaps more like 1%) of the skier population? Are you smoking the mushrooms or just eating them?

 

[jamesdeluxe]

You guys are comparing air fares to major US cities where there are still lifts spinning to obscure Canadian destinations where even in the thick of winter there are still no lifts, thus appealing to less than 10% (or perhaps more like 1%) of the skier population? Are you smoking the mushrooms or just eating them?

The exchange was based on a hypothetical (below), not on an existing situation. You're killing me.

if there were a resort in the chic chocs that was lift serviced on the scale of lets say 2000-2500 acres, and there were air service. I guarantee you, more would go there for long weekend trips than to Colorado.

 

[Marc_C]

The exchange was based on a hypothetical (below), not on an existing situation. You're killing me.

if there were a resort in the chic chocs that was lift serviced on the scale of lets say 2000-2500 acres, and there were air service. I guarantee you, more would go there for long weekend trips than to Colorado.

Exactly my point.

 

[Patrick]

Admin did a great story that resumes the situation pretty well.

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/News/2 ... Out-There/

Just noticed that Wildcat is done for the season.

QC:

Miller: open this weekend
Comi: April 26 (weekend only - weather permitting)
Ste-Anne: April 26
St-Sauveur: May 3 (if possible)(weekends only)

ME:

Sunday River: April 26
Sugarloaf: May 3


VT :

Killington: May 3
Jay Peak: May 3 (if possible) (weekend only)
Sugarbush: May 3 (if possible) (weekend only)

 

[rfarren]

You guys are comparing air fares to major US cities where there are still lifts spinning to obscure Canadian destinations where even in the thick of winter there are still no lifts, thus appealing to less than 10% (or perhaps more like 1%) of the skier population? Are you smoking the mushrooms or just eating them?

The exchange was based on a hypothetical (below), not on an existing situation. You're killing me.

I guess we aren't allowed to wonder what if... I guess SLC sucks the imagination out of some, and makes them ridiculously competitive.

 

[Marc_C]

I guess we aren't allowed to wonder what if...

Well, I suppose if your skiing sucks more often than not and often ends the earliest in North America, I guess all you can do is wonder about hypotheticals.

(Sorry gang, it was just such a wide open door.....! :lol: )

 

[Patrick]

I guess we aren't allowed to wonder what if...

Well, I suppose if your skiing sucks more often than not and often ends the earliest in North America, I guess all you can do is wonder about hypotheticals.

No, your skiing sucks!!! :roll:

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Patrick fires the elephant gun.

 

[Harvey]

...it was just such a wide open door.... )

 

[Bushwacker1951]

Although, if there were a resort in the chic chocs that was lift serviced on the scale of lets say 2000-2500 acres, and there were air service. I guarantee you, more would go there for long weekend trips than to Colorado.

I disagree. Yup, a resort in the chocs would have awesome terrain but your forgetting about one big draw the west has over the east...the weather. The east - rare bluebird days and when it happens it usually is cold, windy and raw. The west - many more bluebird days and it feels warm.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Bushwacker's point may have something to do with why there has never been a push to develop a major resort in the Chic-Chocs. While we nutcases will brave inclement weather for sufficient quality of snow and terrain, the majority of skiers have lower tolerances. The Chic-Chocs would require air service, and even if that air service were equal in price to SLC/DIA, most eastern skiers would opt for the latter's greater consistency of weather/snow conditions.

The Presidentials are far more accessible, and the midwinter weather there was judged to be too adverse for lift service. I suspect midwinter weather in the Chic-Chocs is not that different. I realize both of these ranges are now locked up by environmental laws, but during the "anything goes" development era in the 50's and 60's I'll bet it was the weather that kept the developers away, along with remote location for the Chic-Chocs.

Time for me to defend the easterners some:

Well, I suppose if your skiing sucks more often than not

Actually only about 1/3 of the time. :lol: But seriously, quality skiing within drive distance during ~2/3 of a 4-5 month season is more than a lot of people in North America have.

and often ends the earliest in North America

No. The blunt truth is that nobody spins lifts after early-to-mid-April unless they are close to a big population base. Montana, New Mexico, SW Colorado, interior BC were all done by Easter this year except for those who earn their turns. And lots of these places close first weekend of April. Ask ChricC how his Telluride locals like that.

 

[skimore]

I disagree. Yup, a resort in the chocs would have awesome terrain but your forgetting about one big draw the west has over the east...the weather. The east - rare bluebird days and when it happens it usually is cold, windy and raw. The west - many more bluebird days and it feels warm.

Not all doom and gloom in the east. We were able to catch a few of those bluebird powder days last week here.
As for all the chatter about how far the Gaspesie is. I typically lose a day on both ends of a trip that involves flying. I 'd much rather have a scenic 12 hr drive than deal with airlines......and the terrain does compare

 

[Patrick]

I realize both of these ranges are now locked up by environmental laws, but during the "anything goes" development era in the 50's and 60's I'll bet it was the weather that kept the developers away, along with remote location for the Chic-Chocs.

Possible reason why this didn't happen in the 50s and 60s?

Remote location and small population spread over the coast line is #1. About the size of the state of Vermont, the Gaspe-Madgalen Island Adminstrative Region are about the same size. (21,000km2 versus 24,000km2 for VT). Population in VT is 621,000 are no so far from populated areas, while the Gaspe region and Madgalen Island is 95,000.

The Gaspe Peninsula overlap which would includes part of the Lower St.Lawrence region. Both regions (LSL and GMI) are 43,000km2 and population is still under 300,000. Far from any large market like Tremblant or MSA. Ste-Anne became a resort in 1966.

Difficult terrain and access. This type of terrain might in vogue now, but there wasn't really anything like it in North America ski areas in the 50s-60s. Access, roads and distance were much greater before.

Climat and high winds. The Chic Chocs has had a heliski operation that lasted for two years in the mid 80s, but weather wasn't ideal. So it can be bad, but not that bad if they was a heliski operations that tried to be a viable business.