Killington 5/19&20/03

lololol <BR>Les Otten still sucks --> LOSS <BR>despite it's over, I count on all you to be on the next chat, next wednesday (always the first wed of the month, during summer). (wed june 4 at 9hPM) <BR> <BR>this is the address for the ones who don't know : <BR><A HREF="" TARGET="_top"></A> <BR> <BR>With a little bit of luck, it should work this month (@£¢¤¦±@) (last time, it broke down at 9h15, and came back to life just near 9h40, so almost no usual chatters came on the chat) <BR> <BR>Damn it's raining raining and raining here. The sun almost don't hit the canyon normally, but it's not the same thing for the rain. At least, it's cold, but how much snow will remain friday ?? ishhh <BR> <BR>I wonder if Mr Left Gully and Mr Way went to Mt Washington this weekend. With the rain and the big bug problem, I'm not sure if it was a big worth for the remaining snow... ?
But Joe, looking to some comparison pics, it's not soooo bad. I mean, comparing with the last years pics I posted. If you look the very late season, see that... <BR> <BR>may 27, 2000 <BR><IMG SRC="" ALT="Killington may 27, 2000"> <BR>courtesy of Marc Guido (lol) <BR> <BR>may 31, 2002 <BR><IMG SRC="" ALT="Killington may 31, 2002"> <BR> <BR>Unfortunately, I don't know why, but I don't have a ugly pic of Superstar on may 2001... weird... The one I have of may 23 almost looks good, despite the resort closed on may 27.
Thanks for that pic. Superstar looks just about how I'd expect almost a week on from my last visit. Weird how the melt patterns can vary- the top of the headwall seems to have sunk lower/faster than years past, but a couple of the areas in/around the bottom pitch held on a little longer. Heavy rains today probably mean that the middle is even more sparse, but it looks like there will be a decent hike-up patch at the bottom for a while longer. I'll have to check that basinski site more often. They put up some pics today of the last day and it looks like it was pretty rainy and miserable. It was too bad when Kmart took the real time webcam off the roof of the K base lodge <BR> <BR>An interesting thread. As concerns early openings, I always wondered why Okemo doesn't take more interest in challenging their giant neighbor to the north, esp. given that they are one of the, if not *the*, most consistently expanding areas in the east, with marketing to match. <BR> <BR>As for going into the summer, yeah it's a sad truth that late season skier numbers drop off sharply (and that they don't know what they're missing), but summer skiing in the east would be such a novelty thing to offer that the interest could actually rebound a little. Hell, think of all the snowboard kids that get out of school in June! A corporate giant like ASC is becoming ever less likely to push the early/late envelope, never mind try additional summer skiing, but that Glades chair /Rime trail is a damned good candidate IMO. The exposure is close to north and shady (even a little more so of both for the trail to skier's left, West Glade), the base of the lift is higher altitude than just about any other in the region, and K is fairly centrally located. They would probably have to make you walk between the top of the K1 gondola and Glades chair and back rather than run the pickup truck routine long term (that always cracks me up, the bumpy rutted pickup truck ride crossing under the zillion dallar hi-tech gondy!). Still, it would probably take a smaller more visionary hard-core skier organization to pursue such a thing. <BR> <BR>If someone did go into summer, I would imagine that the finances of doing so would require that they need to charge for summer skiing seperately, i.e. not make post-6/1 skiing part of the season pass 'season'. As a pass holder I'd rather they didn't of course, but I could understand it. Hell, it's bad enough that areas don't consider we pass holders as 'income' when tallying the daily take, esp. of late regular season days, when the plain fact is that we *are* paying customers...we just paid up front, that's all! Most of us admittedly pay less per day depending on # of days skied....but hey then again, I know a guy who only ended up getting out a handful of times on his pass so he actually paid a lot *more* than retail on the days he went (like around $100/day)!
Hi Frank, <BR> <BR>If it wasn't so lazzzzy and late... I could post some of my mid-June pics of K. Definately look much better than the one you posted today. I am also not sure how? <BR> <BR>As for Skiing the big areas in the US, with the expection of Killington, Jay, Smuggs and Burke (I skiied only once at Stowe and Whiteface before 1992)... All my ski days for the rest of those areas have been skiied since 1992, when I left the U of M ski team (I mentioned before we skiied the same stuff and rarely had the time to ski outside the team... only in November and May, so I would definately end up at K). I skiied at least 5 times at each of my top 15 areas mentioned yesterday. <BR> <BR>The price that I paid was never much higher (even lower) than what I lift tickets cost at Tremblant. Remember I mentioned that I was willing to drive anywhere when there was a deal. <BR> <BR>BTW, lift-tickets at Smuggs at also at par, like Jay. Haven't SN skied there in maybe 8-9 years and I had discount from booklets. You have to know where to find the deals. Example, Whiteface has a few Super Sunday with $30US lift tickets. Cannon has 2 for 1 on SuperBowl Sunday. Sugarloaf had a Canadian midweek in January... if I am not mistaken, this year we paid $35CAN plus you can find some discount tickets at Bernie's (Trottier) - $42can two years ago. I left Ottawa on a Thursday to sleep at a friend in Bromont, then did a daytrip the next morning Sugarloaf - the next day I was in time in Ottawa for my daughter ski lessons at Edelweiss on Saturday afternoon. <BR>It's more my daughter ski lessons that has limited my long trips this year... can't really go to Montreal to ski further when I have to be home on Saturday. The new baby has not really limited my time because I took parental leave. We will see next year. <BR> <BR>Ah yes, MadRiverGlen roll back the clock days at the end of January - $3.50US (yes, this is correct, it is not a typo). <BR> <BR>Mind you, some of these special are not advertised - I saw the Sugarloaf one in a small note in Ski Canada two years ago. 8 years ago Sunday River offered free skiing to Quebec residents during one midweek before Christmas - found that one from someone in a chairlift at Tremblant. Most of the special are in March or in mid-january, you just have to keep your eyes open, go to a ski show, some ski discount books or cards are a great way too.
I'm really surprised of the still big and wide amount of snow in the lower part of Superstar (I'm jealous lol) This snowpatch will remain skiable at least up to next weekend and *possibly* to the next one, depending of the snowdepth. <BR> <BR>CD : not only you began the craziest conversation in this chatroom, but your argument for the young snowboarders is a killer. Give them a jump + rail + chairlift + not too expensive and they will come. At Saint-Sauveur, the crowd is still acceptable in the late season and we see the percentage of young snowboarders increase more and more we're far in season. (especially with the 10$ for students every day after april 1 since many years !!) So I'm sure with the end of school, that would be an entire market to explore. <BR> <BR>Effectively, the season passes should stop on late april at K. After may 1, when there is just Superstar remaining (or almost), it's directly some marginal costs that keep them open. So they should have marginal fund entries. Their season passes should be less expensive, but with the elasticity of the demand, they could make more money than before, if they sell enough extra passes to cover the fact they're less expensive. So, they would be at breakeven on this point before to make more money after may 1 and they would have a better economic reason to open later, as it's often just shareholders at the end. It's true that they paid for the longest season in the east... several months before, but the mountain need cash flows for operations, at the end of the year, so...
To include a pic, just see this address... it's just impossible to explain what to do without an error msg of the system that think I want to send an image... <BR> <BR><A HREF="" TARGET="_top"></A>#images <BR> <BR>I don't think Smuggler's Notch is at par. I asked them several years (even this year) and it's always the same response. We offer at par some of the lodging, but not the lift tickets. BUT since this year, Burke Mountain accept Canadian money at Par, like Jay Peak. I had the confirmation from the resort after my day in january. (there is also Titus Mountain NY that offers 20% off) <BR> <BR>For the deals, yes, I know for Sugarloaf, but it was in mid-winter, when I almost didn't skied in the last 3 years. Especially in february, I skied 12 hours, this year, cause of the team works + mid term tests. (funny to see I skied twice more in may this year than in february). I knew some of the other ones you said, despite it's sure I can't know em' all ! <BR> <BR>Thanks for the tip of Bernard Trottier sports. I could find great deals there, as my ""brother in law"" works there. And finally, for the deals, I just hope it didn't cost you in fuel what you saved in lift tickets ! hahaha. By the way, for the deals... I went once at Tremblant this season and my father twice and it cost us 0$. I skied Garceau once... free. Skied 6 times at Alta for a big total of 14$ and I skied VSC once free, so I somehow also know how to not pay too much in skiing hehehe. (average of 6,75$ CAN for lift ticket this winter)
I don't agree with ending the season pass before closing in Killington case. <BR> <BR>There have always push, we have the longest season, ski from October to June, blah blah blah. To start then asking for more money for an extention of the ski pass for one lift to eventually one trail with walking required in May would be, like we say in French, 'la goutte qui fait déborder le vasse', and would see things to start to unravel - number for season passes holders would start melting like Superstar. The Giant's reputation would have been serously wounded and would be in a downward spiral, it would be like the fall of the Roman EMpire. I might be exagerating here and being too dramatic. <BR> <BR>I am sure that a bunch of passholders buy it at K instead of X-resort, before of the extra skiing that would get out of it.
For mid june pics, I have this 2 ones from june 17, 1997. You can see the top have more snow than this year, even 3 weeks later in season. The lower part is a little bit less covered, but as said above, it's 3 weeks later !!! <BR> <BR>JUNE 17, 1997 <BR><IMG SRC="" ALT="june 17, 1997"> <BR> <BR>JUNE 17, 1997 too <BR><IMG SRC="" ALT="june 17, 1997"> <BR> <BR>There is also the other pic I sent recently thinking it was in 1998, but that was probably false (except if it was may 13 and not june 13, 1998... don't know, but it looks more like may 13)
Patrick, I have many pics of Superstar in may where we just see 1-2 skiers on the slope, so I'm not sure if there is really so much people that buy their pass there just because they can ski up to june. Even on a perfect blue sky day + perfect corn snow, there is sometimes just 20 cars or so, in the parking lot. Here, we're just diehards, but ask to 95% of the passholders of Killington and I think they would just don't care if their season passes would finish on april 30, as their season is already finished for a while, at this moment. They would probably appreciate to pay a little bit less money for their passes. For their reputation, this would help them to operate longer, so I don't think it would be a sad thing for their reputation, and even, I think it would be the opposite, cause they would be able to really close in june. May be not til july, but longer than may 26 with walking spots since 3 weeks on Headwall + on lower part since 2 weeks.
For as long as I can remember, Smuggs has always accept $ at par for lift-tickets. This might of change, I know they still did in 1997. However, you need to pay with Canadian cash, not by credit-card. <BR> <BR>The following is an indication of some of the special for lift-tickets in 1996 (based on the booklet, card or other specials I had - still had the table): <BR>Midweek (all canadian $): <BR>Smuggs: 28 & 31 on sunday <BR>Tremblant 31 to 35 <BR>Whiteface 38 <BR>MRG 28 (tues-thurs) <BR>Orford 16 <BR>Sutton 24 <BR>Jay 27 <BR>Shefford 8 <BR> <BR>And I am not talking about the late season specials.
Salut Patrick, <BR> <BR>lol Shefford 8$ hahaha. I paid 12$ this year, the 2 times I went there... this is almost expensive, when I compared it to my average ! lol ! <BR> <BR>Smuggs, may be it was in Canadian money when we went in 1996, as it was just 30$ Can for the bus (yellow one... ishhh) + lift ticket. They possibly changed their politic just after, with the depreciation of the Canadian money, but I can swear you that you can't pay with canadian money at par for lift ticket there. (this is the main reason why I never went back and why I asked many years to see if they'd changed).
some interesting news from Patrick Thorne <BR> <BR> <BR>"There are a number of companies including Snow Magic who can produce snow at positive <BR>temperatures. I am not familiar with Snowmagic (except in make snow for special events) but others I know like a french company called Frigofrance, produce the snow inside portable structures then the spread it out around the slopes. A company called Polar (Australia), like SnowMagic, makes a lot of snow for special events and movies etc. They made snow on the beach in Hawaii at +40 so it is possible. Of course it melts so they have to keep making fresh - really I guess it is not much difference to Mont st Sauveur saving their snow..." <BR> <BR>(I loved the +40 able to make snow lol) and for St-Sauveur, he talks of the annual Ski competition at the end of august. (on a little line of snow of 3-4 feet wide, 200 feet long)
Joe, why are you going to Blackcomb ????? <BR><A HREF="" TARGET="_top"></A> <BR> <BR>Beartooth Pass (not Berthoud) <BR> <BR>I can't believe we now have a new choice of summer ski resort in USA. But Heh, that's not for everyone. I hope their skill test is not like the chute they show on the pic. (although I really like the expression "make 700' vertical in one turn"). They plan to operate at least up to july 4, don't know for after, but it looks really crazy and if I correctly understood, it's the first time ever it opens to public, this weekend. <BR> <BR>I can't believe I'd never heard about this resort before ! If it can remain open after July 4, it will be the only real interesting steep terrain open in North America.
Ok Marc, I know what you're going to say... Just like for Tenney, I should read more often the news section of First Tracks !! Online. whooops
I don't want to add salt to the wound caused by Killington closing early, but I just check out the long range forecast for the area at (meteorology is my other hobby) and the forecast for the period 6/3-6/8 calls for high temperatures to be in the 40's !!!. <BR>This is very cold for the time of year. Granted the forecast does show some rain, but with concentrated snowmaking and persistent cloud cover, the snow may have been around into June. <BR>Anyone who is thinking about skiing what is left may find the snow remaining for a while based on the current forecast. This may be the year for some June snowfall on Mt washington, but most likely too high in elevation to help skiing concerns very much at all, but you never know.
Holy crap, Batman! You guys have really been going at it. Thanks for taking these bulletin boards to the level where they should be used. Spread the word, tell your friends, keep it up. <BR> <BR>On that note, one thing that has hampered the development of these boards was the separation between conditions reports and everything else. Nothing really gelled between the two. That's all due to change in the coming days, as we prepare to merge the Liftlines and No-Bull boards. No exact ETA to offer, but don't be surprised if you show up one day and all is combined. Nothing will be removed, just added together. <BR> <BR>Patrick/Kevin: For a daytrip from the Loaf into QC, or general exploration of the province's skiing, consider of course Massif du Sud in St-Philemon. My personal favorite in the province, actually. See <A HREF="" TARGET="_blank"></A>. Don't let the meager vertical drop deceive you, the place can kick my butt. Should be a pretty easy shot up across the border and through St.-Georges. As you suspect, things really flatten out quickly as you head north into Quebec from Maine. <BR> <BR>As for Orford, you can't let a 1980s impression keep you from going back now. As Frank said, the place has changed dramatically since the ice storm. What they were not previously allowed to cut, due to restrictions of being within a park, Mother Nature thinned for them. All they needed to do is remove the deadfall and slap a trail sign at the entrance. Ranks right up there with MRG and Jay for glades, and there's some really hairball stuff even without the glades. Frank's namesake trail is one of the best in the east for natural challenge, IMO. See <A HREF="" TARGET="_blank"></A> for details. <BR> <BR>Regarding your language inquiry, parts of the Eastern Townships along the VT and NH borders are very anglophone, dating back to the US Revolutionary War over 200 years ago when British Loyalists fled across the border into Canada. Even today, these pockets of the English language remain intact. <BR> <BR>Move further east to the area north of Maine, however, and it's another story. French, French, and more French, but I've found the rural population out there to be exceedingly friendly despite the language barrier. Good luck finding any employee at Massif du Sud who speaks a lick of English -- if an anglophone caller is trying to make reservations, they generally go grab the GM to take the call because he's the only one. Terrific people out there, though. <BR> <BR>With Le Massif's gradual induction into the Big Time, things are changing there. When I started to visit there, it was nothing but French. Today, as they draw more visitors from Montreal, Ontario and the States, the staff is becoming increasingly bilingual. <BR> <BR>Finally, if you're really into heading into the wild blue yonder, IMHO no hairball ski trip through the province would be complete without a stop at Mont-Edouard (see <A HREF="" TARGET="_blank"></A>). OK, it's on the other side of nowhere, but wow ... what terrain! And no one there to have to share it with. <BR> <BR>Finally, to all: as Frank has suggested, it would be a blast to get you folks all into the chat room next Wednesday to discuss this all in real-time. Attendance is generally pretty sparse at this time of year for those things, anyway. One week from this Wednesday at 9 pm Eastern at <A HREF="" TARGET="_blank"></A>. <BR> <BR>OK, Marc out ... for now.
Oh, one more thing. <BR> <BR>Frank: you mentioned Beartooth Pass. That is really Pepi Stiegler's race camp site south of Red Lodge. There are a couple of surface lifts, and it only runs from spring into early summer. Friend Jay Silveira (of J&E Productions fame, one of the movie producers that we work with here at FTO to deliver streaming video content) went out there July 5-7 last summer. The lifts had already shut down for the year, but they skied from the car. See <A HREF="" TARGET="_blank"></A> for details and ample photos. The Beartooth days will be included in their upcoming <B><I>Northern Rockies Ahead</I></B> video/DVD, set for release any time now (see <A HREF="" TARGET="_blank"></A> for details). I highly recommend their productions for a refreshingly simple look at quality skiing. Their videography talents get better with each release, and the skiing talent is second to none. I'd rather watch their stuff than TGR, WM, etc.
Someone had mentioned wanting pictures of superstar from the 90's. I have some pictures of superstar from a ski trip on May 17th 1992 (17 feet of base depth on that date) and from june 1994. The only problem is I do not have a scanner but I will try to find a solution if anyone is interested. I also have pictures of October 31st <BR>1992 snowmaking on superstar and snowshed. The biggest problem with taking lots of skiing pictures is to label them all so you remember 10+ years later what you took pictures of and when.