Mayflower Mountain at Deer Valley
- Thread starter jamesdeluxe
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tseeb
Well-known member
Two of those upper lifts are not new. Mayflower lift is 40+ years old. Sultan lift is 20 years old and replaced lift from 1981. https://liftblog.com/deer-valley-ut/
My mistake with the circling -- my last time there was 2002.
Here's the map showing what's new for 2025-26. The Keeley Express from East Village opened last season. Mayflower only serves black terrain. If I'm reading the new map correctly, as compared to an old map, the two trails that opened last season are Green Monster (green) and Age of Reason, groomers that allow an intermediate to get from the top of Park Peak to East Village.
When I spent a day at DV last season, the original idea was to explore the new lift and trails But we caught a powder day. Met up with a Ski Diva who knows DV well, so my Diva ski buddy and I spent the day playing in trees and bump terrain enjoying 6-10 inches from fresh snow. Was well worth the slow drive back to SLC in the afternoon on snowy roads.
https://expandedexcellence.deervalley.com/major-terrain-expansion/ - scroll down to find this map
When I spent a day at DV last season, the original idea was to explore the new lift and trails But we caught a powder day. Met up with a Ski Diva who knows DV well, so my Diva ski buddy and I spent the day playing in trees and bump terrain enjoying 6-10 inches from fresh snow. Was well worth the slow drive back to SLC in the afternoon on snowy roads.
https://expandedexcellence.deervalley.com/major-terrain-expansion/ - scroll down to find this map
Found a NY Times article about DV from 2008. There were 2026 skiable acres. 200 acres were added in 2007 when the Lady Morgan lift opened up to provide more advanced terrain.
For context in 2025, Park City offers 7300 acres, Palisades Tahoe has 6000 acres, and Big Sky has 5850 acres. Whistler-Blackcomb comes in at 8171 acres. Alta and Snowbird combined have 5114 acres. The Baldy lift opened in 2001.
For context in 2025, Park City offers 7300 acres, Palisades Tahoe has 6000 acres, and Big Sky has 5850 acres. Whistler-Blackcomb comes in at 8171 acres. Alta and Snowbird combined have 5114 acres. The Baldy lift opened in 2001.
To paraphrase George Orwell
Park City and Deer Valley acres are largely uninspiring. Alta/Snowbird combined skis far bigger than Park City. Whistler/Blackcomb is on a completely different level.
takeahike46er
New member
This figure seems a bit higher than I remembered.
I think it’s because Alta includes 375 acres of cat serviced terrain in their 2600 reported acres
. If so, that makes the combined total more like 4739 acres (slightly less than Whistler without Blackcomb).Deer Valley may not have the quantity or quality of acres as some of those other resorts, but…HAVE YOU SEEN THEIR SNOWMAKING UPGRADES?!?!?
To advanced/expert skiers who have been skiing challenging terrain for decades . . . very true.
To cautious intermediates who have to fly for big mountain skiing . . . a ski club trip to Deer Valley is of enough interest that signing up early is important to avoid getting closed out. One of the Washington DC ski clubs has a trip planned for March 2027, staying at a resort lodge near Heber City. The expansion means someone can get a 20-min shuttle ride to East Village, and stay on the new green/blue trails. Presumably those trails won't ever get busy. From the friends I know who will be on that trip, I'd guess that most of the people on that trip will be over 65.
I've come to know a couple of families who brought up their children skiing at DV, staying slopeside. Those children are now young adults. One from California and the other from the southeast. Has given me more insight into the target market. I converted one mother to an Alta Lodge fan.
I've skied DV during late season and mid-season in the late decade. So no reason to spend money for a lift ticket before DV was on Ikon. Compared to skiing man-made snow anywhere the mid-Atlantic, New England, or the midwest, way more fun to ski groomers at DV.
That's a very informative article. I wonder if this will be the largest snowmaking system in North America. As we've discussed in this thread, it needs to be because that expansion terrain gets meager natural snow. It says they are tapping Jordanelle Reservoir for water supply, which is a very positive sign as I view water supply as the primary constraint upon western snowmaking.
On our last visit Jan. 31, 2022 Liz described Deer Valley snow as
We skied ballroom smooth soft packed powder groomers at Jackson Hole two days later. Liz has skied only two days lifetime at Deer Valley but I have skied nine, all in separate seasons.
Five of my days were in March. You can take it to the bank that nearly all of that expansion terrain will be in spring melt/freeze mode due to the low altitude and primary east exposure. Yes it could snow, but if it does it will be maybe 1/3 of what LCC gets.
Sun Valley is the current gold standard of western snowmaking, but it has majority north exposure which makes preserving its snow easier.
As for the size of the snowmaking, the Deer Valley article says
On that 2010 Sun Valley snowmaking plant tour, they said
As for spring melt/freeze, we learned at Crested Butte in late March 2024:
The new expansion at Deer Valley will be an ultimate test of whether adverse natural attributes can be overcome by throwing enough snowmaking and grooming tech and $$$ at the challenge. I'm sure we will have the chance to check it out some season before or after Iron Blosam Week.
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EMSC
Well-known member
I don't buy the waybthat was written. The number of pumps and separate primary lines headed up the hill as well as power requirements makes that wildly unlikely IMO.
While it may be impressive numbers (whatever they actually are) there is no way they can run all 1200 guns simultaneously.
Made me read the article again . . .
The manager for DV snowmaking, Brett Hawksford, has been making snow at DV since 2003. The fact that most of the new snowguns are automated makes a huge difference.
August 2025
Snowmaking fuels Deer Valley Resort’s next era of skiing - Park Record
Crews have cut enough trenching to reach Salt Lake City to lay pipe and wire, with almost 50 miles worth of snowmaking pipe to spread across the new terrain.
www.parkrecord.com
With the new system pumping 15,000 gallons of water per minute and 32,000 cubic feet of air per minute, it nearly doubles the output of old Deer Valley. Because the resort can run all 1,200 new guns at once with this capacity, it can build a deeper base more quickly and ensure consistent snow coverage no matter the season’s conditions.
. . .
To reach the new terrain, water is released from the Jordanelle Dam into the Provo River, then pumped uphill through intermediate stations and a large holding tank before arriving at the new Hail Peak facility.
Inside the facility, massive pumps drive up to 10,000 gallons of water a minute through the system. Working in tandem, the Ventana Pump House, higher on the mountain, adds another 5,000 gallons per minute, creating a relay that pushes water to the upper reaches of the expansion at nearly twice the rate of the original system.
To make it snow-ready, the water first passes through chillers that drop its temperature closer to 40 degrees, giving it a head start on freezing once it’s sprayed. At the same time, banks of industrial compressors generate 32,000 cubic feet of air per minute, and each unit is cooled after compression, so the air leaves at freezing-friendly temperatures instead of the 300 degrees it reaches under pressure.
Together, the chilled water and cooled air meet at the guns, where the air atomizes the flow into a fine mist — each droplet with enough surface area and hang time to freeze into snow as it lands.
“It’s what lets us run everything at once,” Hawksford said. “All 1,200 guns, full coverage. When you put it all together, it’s going to be one of the largest systems in North America.”
Almost 90% of the guns in the expansion are automated, meaning operators can turn them on or off, adjust water flow and change the rotation and elevation of fan guns remotely. Stick guns, while more energy efficient, still require crews on the ground to fine tune water-to-air ratios or nozzle settings when conditions shift.
. . ."
EMSC
Well-known member
So the real capacity is 10K GPM. Very large for the western US which is usually in the 2-5K GPM or less range. (The "extra" 5K is actually just pumping half that capacity on the upper part of mountain from the original 10K being pumped uphill from the base).
By my counting that is only about 5 ~1500 vert trails at a time and the only way they are filling 1200 guns is if they are those tiny low capacity stick ones that have to be placed every 50-75 feet from each other.
It's still a good amount of snowmaking for the west at one time, but also not unprecedented in the scheme of worldwide snowmaking.
All the air/water chilling stuff is quite standard in the industry.
By my counting that is only about 5 ~1500 vert trails at a time and the only way they are filling 1200 guns is if they are those tiny low capacity stick ones that have to be placed every 50-75 feet from each other.
It's still a good amount of snowmaking for the west at one time, but also not unprecedented in the scheme of worldwide snowmaking.
All the air/water chilling stuff is quite standard in the industry.
EMSC
Well-known member
I looked up a couple of east coast places for comparison. Sunday River claims 10K GPM, Blue Mtn ON claims 14K GPM, and Seven Springs PA claims over 30K GPM in ideal conditions. Shockingly Killington only claims 2.5K GPM!
Most ski areas of course don't ever mention GPM and instead talk about miles of pipe, total snowguns available, percent or acres of terrain covered, etc...
And let's be honest, if you are a resort in the western part of the continent, touting big snowmaking is mostly admitting your resort is not snowy and not worth skiing for the much of the time.
Most ski areas of course don't ever mention GPM and instead talk about miles of pipe, total snowguns available, percent or acres of terrain covered, etc...
And let's be honest, if you are a resort in the western part of the continent, touting big snowmaking is mostly admitting your resort is not snowy and not worth skiing for the much of the time.
takeahike46er
New member
1000%!
I was being snarky when I linked to the article in all caps.
I am skeptical DV will be able to overcome nature and offer a quality product in much of the new terrain, and I suspect casual skiers will notice a difference.
They may not comprehend why the surface feels different. Casual skiers don’t often pay attention to things like aspect, elevation, and the mix of man-made vs natural snow. But they are sensitive to surface conditions, arguably more so than advanced/experts who have better technique.
And casuals will notice the brown slopes in bad years. For some that get out a few days a year, the wintery vibe is the point. Everything else is secondary. When the expectation doesn’t match reality, especially for those staying/accessing via the East Village, these type of visitors will likely be disappointed and consider destinations that meet their expectations.
I'm inclined to believe that the 10,000 GPM combined with Jordanelle Reservoir water might be the highest capacity in western North America, even if it's far less than the Dolomites or several places in Austria. Like the Dolomites, it might ski fairly well in December/January though my experience with original Deer Valley in 2009 and 2022 says otherwise. Past mid-February it will be very difficult to mitigate the impact of the poor altitude and exposure.
I still scratch my head at this development 10 air miles from the Greatest Snow on Earth. It will be so glaring in regional context.
I still scratch my head at this development 10 air miles from the Greatest Snow on Earth. It will be so glaring in regional context.