this weeks sign that the apocalypse is upon us

joegm

joegm

New member
you couldn't make this stuff up

"We'll be grooming 78 trails for your carving pleasure on Tuesday including favorites such as Ovation, Skyelark, Launch Pad and the legendary Outer Limits, the steepest mogul run in the East. Please be aware that there is limited ski/ride access available to Bear Mountain on Tuesday."

that is the first line of the Killington snow report for tomorrow...
what a pathetic place that hill has turned into... :roll:
 
If it wasn't tragic, I would laugh.

That has pathetic as the snow report from a local hill mentioning "Deep Powder" as primary conditions, but groomed 99% of the hill on one of the greatest storm to hit Ottawa on record. :x :x :x

We do live in pathetic times.
 
pat, they wonder why skiing / riding is flat year over year....they think they know what they are doing....they couldn't be more wrong... the ski industry management in the east is laughable... cannon has already closed the tram...my god the industry is just clueless
 
"We'll be grooming 78 trails for your carving pleasure on Tuesday including favorites such as Ovation, Skyelark, Launch Pad and the legendary Outer Limits, the steepest mogul run in the East. Please be aware that there is limited ski/ride access available to Bear Mountain on Tuesday."
Click to expand...

Sounds like my father will be happy. :roll: God, I can't believe I go to utah, sorry..."foofyland" with him, and on powder days he searches for the groomed! Sometimes I wonder if I'm even his son!
 
joegm":2rthvqmb said:
"We'll be grooming 78 trails for your carving pleasure on Tuesday including favorites such as Ovation, Skyelark, Launch Pad and the legendary Outer Limits, the steepest mogul run in the East. Please be aware that there is limited ski/ride access available to Bear Mountain on Tuesday."
Click to expand...
That is really funny that they brag about Outer Limits being the "steepest mogul run in the East" in the same sentence that they brag about grooming it. That is pretty crazy to be grooming key bump runs heading into spring skiing just a week and a half away. I think you can officially stick a fork in Killington.
 
Could there be a good reason why they are grooming Outer Limits, i.e. it's very icy right now, and we are better off grooming it & letting new bumps form in preparation for the Bear Mtn Challenege?

Maybe there's a method to the madness, although grooming it in mid-March seems quite unusual. :?

Also, I think Cannon is running the tram (wknds only) through next wknd. I actually understand that from a cost perspective, since you can access the Summit from the Cannonball Quad.

I'm glad to hear that this week's warm-up won't be too bad, and that there wil be snow on the backside (especially the further North you go). But geez, what do we have to do to get a big-time Winter storm this month?? This year has been upside-down: December was great, while March has been a disappointment. And usually March is the best month to ski the East, IMO.
 
joegm":3hv5jj2i said:
you couldn't make this stuff up

"We'll be grooming 78 trails for your carving pleasure on Tuesday including favorites such as Ovation, Skyelark, Launch Pad and the legendary Outer Limits, the steepest mogul run in the East. Please be aware that there is limited ski/ride access available to Bear Mountain on Tuesday."

that is the first line of the Killington snow report for tomorrow...
what a pathetic place that hill has turned into... :roll:
Click to expand...

What's the big deal? Killington has always 50% groomed Outer Limits. I was on it on Sunday after they'd groomed it on Saturday night. It was really nice on the bottom 2/3's of the trail. The top third was golf balls. You could ski on skier's right and have all the bumps you wanted. Guess what? 99% of the people were on the groomed half and I was certainly part of that 99%.

If you wanted fun bumps, you only had to venture one trail over onto Devils Fiddle. That was really fun.

For the mogul challenge, Killington will manufacture bumps. With crappy short shaped skis, there's no such thing as a real bump run these days unless you're at a dirtbag pinnah mountain like Mad River. When everybody was on 200cm skis, OL used to have pretty nice lines all year. It hasn't been like that for a decade and you can blame the new equipment.
 
Geoff said:
What's the big deal? for the mogul challenge, Killington will manufacture bumps. With crappy short shaped skis, there's no such thing as a real bump run these days unless you're at a dirtbag pinnah mountain like Mad River.
Click to expand...
what are you kidding me
the big deal is they say in the same sentence that the worlds longest greatest blah blah blah bump run is groomed out....that's just absurd....that's like advertising that the freshly cut superpipe has just been knocked down flat...or that that trail that has the nastar course on it has just had freshly laid in moguls....
crappy short shapedskis have nothing to do with resorts refusing to take the time and effort to put in good bump runs.
and riddle me this geoff... why will killington manufacture bumps just for the mogul challenge on ol but not manufacture them on a regular basis for the rest of the season? don't you see the ridiculousness of this? how are people supposed to be able to compete in the " mogul challenge" if the there are never any bumps that will be in the " mogul challenge " available to ski on ?
do they only manufacture the halfpipe, 4 or 5 days before the halfpipe comp?
you have to be kidding me?
 
joegm":2imsnm8i said:
what are you kidding me
the big deal is they say in the same sentence that the worlds longest greatest blah blah blah bump run is groomed out....that's just absurd....that's like advertising that the freshly cut superpipe has just been knocked down flat...or that that trail that has the nastar course on it has just had freshly laid in moguls....
crappy short shapedskis have nothing to do with resorts refusing to take the time and effort to put in good bump runs.
and riddle me this geoff... why will killington manufacture bumps just for the mogul challenge on ol but not manufacture them on a regular basis for the rest of the season? don't you see the ridiculousness of this? how are people supposed to be able to compete in the " mogul challenge" if the there are never any bumps that will be in the " mogul challenge " available to ski on ?
do they only manufacture the halfpipe, 4 or 5 days before the halfpipe comp?
you have to be kidding me?
Click to expand...

As I said in my first post, Killington has always routinely 50% groomed Outer Limits in the 25 years I've been skiing there every weekend. If you want bumps, you have half of the trail to yourself all winter that has never seen a groomer.

Killington has plenty of terrain that rarely or never gets groomed. With all the melt-downs this year, they've groomed some of the natural snow terrain more than usual but it would have a rope across it if they didn't.

This year, the manufactured competition bump course is on Conclusion. That makes huge amounts of sense since it's adjacent to the Killington Ski Club Alpine Training Center and adjacent to Highline where the race course is set. Instead of having skier's left of Outer Limits roped off for most of the season for the competition course, they have the left 2/3rds of Conclusion roped off.

Killington has had their half pipe up and running since January. They reconstructed it from scratch for a national televised event because the in-house people don't have the skill to build it properly. They had a number of events on it earlier in the season and friends who worked them said the competitors thought the pipe was awful.

Of course, I sense that you are just ranting for the sake of ranting. Killington is what it is. It's a free country. You can go elsewhere. Having a bad day?
 
Skidog":3o1mpfzq said:
did i mention probably another FOOT in the mtns tonight??? What month is is again??? :D
Click to expand...
Hey, this is the Eastern Forum! Oh wait, never mind... we do have a foot of snow about to nail NoVT heading into Friday. Game on!!!
 
Geoff said:
joegm said:
what are you kidding me
the big deal is they say in the same sentence that the worlds longest greatest blah blah blah bump run is groomed out....that's just absurd....that's like advertising that the freshly cut superpipe has just been knocked down flat...or that that trail that has the nastar course on it has just had freshly laid in moguls....
crappy short shapedskis have nothing to do with resorts refusing to take the time and effort to put in good bump runs.
and riddle me this geoff... why will killington manufacture bumps just for the mogul challenge on ol but not manufacture them on a regular basis for the rest of the season? don't you see the ridiculousness of this? how are people supposed to be able to compete in the " mogul challenge" if the there are never any bumps that will be in the " mogul challenge " available to ski on ?
do they only manufacture the halfpipe, 4 or 5 days before the halfpipe comp?
you have to be kidding me?
Click to expand...

As I said in my first post, Killington has always routinely 50% groomed Outer Limits in the 25 years I've been skiing there every weekend. If you want bumps, you have half of the trail to yourself all winter that has never seen a groomer.

Killington has plenty of terrain that rarely or never gets groomed. With all the melt-downs this year, they've groomed some of the natural snow terrain more than usual but it would have a rope across it if they didn't.

This year, the manufactured competition bump course is on Conclusion. That makes huge amounts of sense since it's adjacent to the Killington Ski Club Alpine Training Center and adjacent to Highline where the race course is set. Instead of having skier's left of Outer Limits roped off for most of the season for the competition course, they have the left 2/3rds of Conclusion roped off.

Killington has had their half pipe up and running since January. They reconstructed it from scratch for a national televised event because the in-house people don't have the skill to build it properly. They had a number of events on it earlier in the season and friends who worked them said the competitors thought the pipe was awful.

Of course, I sense that you are just ranting for the sake of ranting. Killington is what it is. It's a free country. You can go elsewhere. Having a bad day?
Click to expand...

geoff, try and focus and stick to the issues/questions at hand, not psycho analysis.

1) why would they specifically articulate that the " mogul run " is groomed? do they not have enough groomed out black runs available otherwise that they have to advertise, specifically , that ol is groomed? the point was to point out the ridiculousness of how clueless they place has become....you think i have a problem with them grooming out ol.. your wrong..... i have a problem with them grooming it out and not building up bumps on it...of course it needs to be groomed out ....i think i probably think it needs to be groomed out a lot more than you think i do.....it just needs to be immediately restored when they do groom it and not leave it to form naturally, which, by your own admission, turns out to be garbarge most of the time because of less than competant skiing...seeding the moguls removes that as a problem


2) the conclusion course is not readily available to the public...it is eseentially a private course ....DO YOU REALLY THINK KMS IS GOING TO BE WAVING PEOPLE OVER AND SAYING " HEY, COME SKI OUR COURSE " , WHEN THEY ARE OUT THERE SKIING IT....are you SERIOUS? no they are not, in fact what they are going to do is say, " beat it " the course is closed or at the very least intimidate people from going near it....i know for a fact this is what ski teams do either by just outright yelling at people to screw or by strategically placed ropes and signs...

when someone gets in the car in the morning and says im going to killington today, the odds are they can get in the car and have more than a reasonable exepctation to 1- ski the halfpipe- if that's their thing or 2) ski the jib park - if that's their thing.....all legit things to have as " your thing "...but i guess it's not ok to have as " your thing " an expectation to ski some nice bumps...except of course , apparently, when there is a mogul contest, which , is run.....on a mogul course ......and on moguls....... that are put in...... and skied by people who have......seemingly.... very little access to a mogul course to practice on.... for the mogul contest.......that just makes a ton sense doesn't it :?
1- why doesn't killington set up a TRUE PUBLIC course on the bottom lower third , skiers left of OL and maintain it? maintain it means , yes, build it, then tear it down then rebuild it when it needs it.....just like they do with the pipe and just like they do in the park...nothing more nothing less...
...just because you are not interested in skiing bumps with even left / right turns , doesn't mean others are not...just because you feel that naturally formed bumps are the only bumps that matter, doesn't mean that everyone feels that way...2-what's wrong with having some decent bumps available to ski for the times when lines like devils fiddle are not in good shape? ( which, if you are honest, is more often than not _ i'd really , really like to hear just someone come up with a reasonable answer to these questions...
 
jamesdeluxe is 100% right about the topic split; should have been done earlier.

The relocating/significant other discussion is now here: http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... php?t=6623 .

On topic: I find joegm's basic argument undisputable. I ski areas can prep certain runs for parks, halfpipes, why not for moguls? Moguls are sort of assumed to be the natural result of ungroomed trails after several days of traffic. But in the East, after alternative rain/freeze/snow/thaw events like the past couple of months management intervention is necessary, as with the hundreds of groomed runs.

With regard to Killington under Powdr Corp, I'm curious how the overall product is perceived vs. the last few years of ASC financial distress. Is snowmaking/grooming better? They opened more advanced trails early ine season. Did they keep more of them open more often than in prior years?
 
Tony Crocker":1615gcez said:
With regard to Killington under Powdr Corp, I'm curious how the overall product is perceived vs. the last few years of ASC financial distress. Is snowmaking/grooming better? They opened more advanced trails early ine season. Did they keep more of them open more often than in prior years?
Click to expand...

I've got a k pass. The place really sucks compared to even ASC years. The opening weekend lateness, and the lack of a spring season really put them behind in my books. Not to mention their snowpack has been roughly 1/3 to 1/2 of ski areas just 30 to 40 miles north. There is no quality product at the once might K.
 
Tony Crocker said:
jamesdeluxe is 100% right about the topic split; should have been done earlier.

The relocating/significant other discussion is now here: http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... php?t=6623 .

On topic: I find joegm's basic argument undisputable. If ski areas can prep certain runs for parks, halfpipes, why not for moguls? Moguls are sort of assumed to be the natural result of ungroomed trails after several days of traffic. But in the East, after alternative rain/freeze/snow/thaw events like the past couple of months management intervention is necessary, as with the hundreds of groomed runs.

With regard to Killington under Powdr Corp, I'm curious how the overall product is perceived vs. the last few years of ASC financial distress. Is snowmaking/grooming better? They opened more advanced trails early in the season. Did they keep more of them open more often than in prior years?
Click to expand...

unbelievable.. 3000 miles away and the guy has a better read on the area than anyone so far....thank god, for tony crocker....someone does GET IT.....and as far as i know, crocker is not necessarily a sick bird mogul skier....just a smart guy who sees the big picture and gets it right much more often than not .. it's just unreal more can't see the issue and why it should matter... bravo Anthony!
 
No I am not a mogul skier. I tend to avoid them unless they are on the most interesting terrain available, rare at the places I like such as Mammoth and Snowbird. But I value diversity in ski experiences. One of the flaws of eastern skiing is that is generally less diverse than in the West. So homogenizing it further by mowing down or neglecting moguls seems counterproductive.

There's a big cultural change since the late 1970's Miles/Jaffe book I read. By their estimation moguls were the main definition of expert skiing back then, particularly in the East where they lived.

It's probably Geoff's opinion that would be most illuminating about Powdr Corp/Killington. Since he has a place and skis there regularly he should know if Powdr is running the place differently/better than ASC.
 
joegm":1r6xazop said:
unbelievable.. 3000 miles away and the guy has a better read on the area than anyone so far....thank god, for tony crocker....someone does GET IT.....and as far as i know, crocker is not necessarily a sick bird mogul skier....just a smart guy who sees the big picture and gets it right much more often than not .. it's just unreal more can't see the issue and why it should matter... bravo Anthony!
Click to expand...

There is a good endorsement for your book if you ever decide to write a book once you've retired from that pay check job. :o
 
Patrick":2lnnk204 said:
There is a good endorsement for your book if you ever decide to write a book once you've retired from that pay check job. :o
Click to expand...

How much does Crocker pay joegm for that lather?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top