Killington 5/19&20/03

Kevin, <BR>I mentioned that I have pictures from a June Superstar (11/6/92 & 15/6/97)(also from a late May Cascade (1984 - first trip to K), except that I was too lazy to post them. Mind you, I have to scan them first. <BR> <BR>Marc, <BR>Everything seems to blend together when reading all those posts at one time OR was it my typing late into the night? <BR> <BR>I often cross the border into Quebec, however I do not live in the US, but in Ontario. Ex-Montrealer living in Ottawa. I will eventually go to Massif-Sud, Mt-Edouard is a order story. <BR> <BR>As for Orford, always wanted to go back. I driven to alot further places alone since then, but never had a chance to go back. When I get to go to Montreal on winter weekends, I would always choose to ski in New England. Hopefully, it will not care more than 20 years like Orford. <BR> <BR>Discussion board: <BR>Are we off-topic or what?????
 
Hey Marc, is the main problem in northern QC to let understand a skier what's the difference between bumps and powder ? lol (Valinouet inside) For Mt Edouard, it's sad I finally didn't ski it this year, especially as next one, working 80 hours by week during winter, I don't know if I'm going to be able to ski far from Mtl. <BR> <BR>I wonder what was your reaction seeing 77 new messages in a single discussion ! lol. I guess it have been long to read in 1 shot ! <BR> <BR>Thanks for the compliment on Contour ! For le Massif du Sud, yes, except René Godbout, there is certainly not many persons who talk in english in that place. I don't know if you tried the mountain after april 2001, but since that, they finished some new glades (#2,3,8) and the 2 first are the less known in the mountain and there was something like 1 feet of powder when I went there... at a moment where all the other mountains of QC and New England were covered of ice, in early march 2002. It's sure they're a little bit hard to find, for the new skiers of the place. #2 is enough wild, #3 is perfect powder glade. #4 is huge powder glade incredible, #5 is one of the best straight shot trail in the east, with over 40 degrees on sooooo long, #6 was all in powder when I went, but I prefered the even steeper #7, which was a little bit wild, but incredibly coooool. All them are in the steepest trail in the east. (except 2 and 3 a little bit less steep). #8 is as long as Jay's Everglade, you change 3-4 times of vegetation during the run and it use a gigantic canyon for 50% of the length. It's over 1 mile long. The only problem of the mountain is the length of the chairlift. The runs are almost as long at Ste-Anne, even though it's 750' less high. the upper part is almost completely flat, but it allows to reach the far extreme side of the mountain. It's also cool to pass over the tree summit line, with the chairlift which is not so high. But at 0 farenheit with gusty winds.... ishhhhhhhhhhhh ouchhhhh. <BR> <BR>For the Beartooth, I didn't know it was just surface lifts, but I wouldn't care of that. I looked today to the Chromer & Lftgly pics in Tuckerman Ravine on AUGUST 1 and 4, 2001 and I can tell you right now these guys would certainly accept to take some surface lifts ! hahahaha (they're almost worst than mine) <BR> <BR>Chromer <BR><A HREF="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/16/1179.html?997315621" TARGET="_top">http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/16/1179.html?997315621</A> <BR> <BR>Lftgly <BR><A HREF="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/16/1169.html?996705909" TARGET="_top">http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/16/1169.html?996705909</A> <BR> <BR>honestly, even Ward Hill beat this, but not in august ! <BR> <BR>And for Kevin, if you have any worth pic of Killington in may or june or october, there is a chance of 100% that I save them on my disk, cause I really look to find some pics like that !!!
 
Yep Patrick, this conversation **should** be in the liftlines, I think, but as Marc anyway wants to merge the 2 boards and as we began to talk with the CD report (hmm, we're far of it...), I imagine there is no problem at all.
 
The pictures that I can scan at work are: <BR> <BR>Upper Cascade: 11/1/87 <BR>Superstar: 5/16-17 1992 <BR>Upper Cascade: October 2nd 1992 <BR>Superstar/snowshed snowmaking- Nov 1st 1992 <BR> <BR>I have more Pictures but I have to find the album <BR>first.
 
Wow ! I really wonder about some early october pics. I'm in the generation of Rime / Superstar, so I also wonder how it was, in the Cascade era ! <BR> <BR>Of course, the other pics are super welcome too !
 
I also have these pictures: <BR> <BR>Upper Cascade: 10/1/93 (missed opening day in 92) <BR>Superstar: 6/5/96 <BR> <BR>I'll see how to scan them tommorrow.
 
I can add a few western comments to this thread. <BR> <BR>Beartooth Pass was written up in Powder in the early 1990's. We had a motorhome trip to Yellowstone in July 1995, and one morning we drove it up there. The T-bar was't running, and while there was snow it wasn't in very good shape. There was a backcountry bowl that looked better, but I couldn't persuade my then 10-year-old son Adam to go with me. Of course he was spoiled because we had just skied 13K vertical lift-serviced at Mammoth on July 15. The lift service is 700 vertical and somewhat confined. But Beartooth has a tremendous amount of backcountry road shuttle skiing (2000+ vertical, lots of chutes and bowls) available for a week or two when the road is first plowed in late May. 1995 was a big year, so I suspect Beartooth's normal window of opportunity is short (I'd say a few weeks). Get there as soon as you can when the road opens. <BR> <BR>With regard to late season operation out here, I can provide some history with respect to Intrawest. They developed Blackcomb but only purchased Whistler in 1998(?). When the mountains were rivals, Blackcomb generally ran later (usually Victoria Day, one week before Memorial Day) despite the fact that Blackcomb is mostly west-facing and Whistler mostly north. Now that Intrawest owns both areas, Blackcomb closes after the World Ski & Snowboard Festival (3rd weekend in April) but Whistler runs the Red and Green chairs plus the entire alpine until first weekend in June. Then Blackcomb runs the Horstman Glacier camps from late June until early August. So I think Intrawest has a decent late season commitment on their home turf. But the key is probably the Vancouver metro area within day-commute distance. <BR> <BR>Intrawest is now the developer of Mammoth. This weekend we saw their new village development, which will open next season with gondola transport to the mountain. Dave McCoy is still around, though at age 87 he is not as involved in day-to-day operation. Mammoth ran 11 lifts and 2000 acres over Memorial weekend. In a couple of days I will post reports and pics in the Western section. <BR> <BR>When one of the local shop owners grumbled that Intrawest was "just focused on the bottom line and unlikely to run as long as under Dave McCoy", I told him he was damn lucky to be at Mammoth and not at some other area where they really cut corners. And because the terrain park at the Main Lodge is losing its snow, they are in process of constructing a 17-foot halfpipe on the upper mountain for June skiing. The shop owner said it was probably for a photo shoot, but locals on the hill said Mammoth will run until June 17. No official closing date has been announced on the website. I think they want to go for July 4th, but are watching the meltdown process, which has been extensive during the past week. We L.A. skiers do support Mammoth spring skiing, particularly on the 3-day Memorial (and occasional July 4th) weekends. <BR> <BR>I find the Loveland/A-Basin situation understandable. Loveland wraps around roughly equal north, east and south exposures. A-Basin is the best area for spring snow preservation I have ever seen. The criticism I would have for Colorado this year is the April cutback of a week at the big areas, Vail, Breck and Copper. I'm presuming they set that schedule after last year's lousy spring and didn't change it despite the great March and April they had this year. <BR> <BR>Mammoth does vary its late schedule depending on what kind of year they are having, going for 4th of July if possible or running extra lifts on the May weekends like this year. <BR> <BR>To end on a more negative note, Mt. Bachelor under new ownership (the Alpine Meadows, Park City group)is going the other way, closing Memorial Day when they could make July 4th in about 3/4 of seasons, and also chintzing on lift operation after Easter. But they do not have the population base of Whistler, Mammoth or Colorado Front Range.
 
About Intrawest, the thing I have against them is more the 1999-2000 Tremblant closure. They closed on april 24... ok, this looks to be good after a bad snow year like that. But, the employees were furious and the skiers were even more (me included). All the main trails of the mountain had seriously enough snow to open 2 more weeks. There was even still a huge ton of snow to enter Vertige + ZigZag on the south side, compared to normal years, where you must walk the first pitch to join the snow before mid-april. It was hard to believe all the snow they had. On the north side, the MC Asselin / Banzai / Tunnel were still open in enough great shape, even without snowmaking, steep and narrow. The Edge, Lower North Side and Soleil side looked also in very great shape (they were closed) after more than 2 feet of snow in the past weeks and low temperatures. In fact, that was a so much good end of season that after that year, they just stopped to do snowmaking, to close on april 20 without problem with skiers and employees. It's obvious how they began to blow less snow since that time, so it's hard to take for a maniac skier like me... even though, once again, I understand the financial / economics points... bla bla bla... <BR> <BR>I like the mentality of Mammoth... I just hope it won't change with the time (Tremblant already closed in june, with Intrawest on board).
 
Responding to a few of the recent comments in this thread. <BR> <BR>Patrick wrote: <BR><BLOCKQUOTE><B>"Are we off-topic or what?????"</B></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR>and Frankontour wrote: <BR><BLOCKQUOTE><B>"Yep Patrick, this conversation **should** be in the liftlines, I think, but as Marc anyway wants to merge the 2 boards and as we began to talk with the CD report (hmm, we're far of it...), I imagine there is no problem at all."</B></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR>and <BR><BLOCKQUOTE><B>"I wonder what was your reaction seeing 77 new messages in a single discussion ! lol. I guess it have been long to read in 1 shot !"</B></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR>My reaction is, "Terrific! Bring it on!" Honestly, these boards have always disappointed me in their use -- lots of folks read them, judging from server reports, but not enough folks post. Frankontour is correct -- I'm hoping that the merger of the two boards will stimulate just this kind of poignant discussion. Right now, I think that the problem is that it's too fragmented by being split between Liftlines and No-Bull. Go to town, for the problem will soon be rectified. <BR> <BR>Frankontour further wrote: <BR><BLOCKQUOTE><B>"I'm in the generation of Rime / Superstar, so I also wonder how it was, in the Cascade era !"</B></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR>Well, then, I have a surprise for you. Back in 1997 when K-Mart replaced the Killington Peak double chair with the K1 gondi, I wrote an opinion piece lamenting the chair's demise. It was very poorly written -- heck, I was new at this game -- and the piece has since been removed from the public eye. I never took it off the server, it's just orphaned, with no one able to find it by navigating the site. <BR> <BR>However, it contains photos of Upper Cascade that I shot while skiing there on June 2, 1987. You may find it <A HREF="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/killjune.htm" TARGET="_blank">here</A>. I particularly like the first photo, showing the loading corral of the Killington Peak chair with the trees fully leafed (is that a word??) and dandelions growing on the ground. Looking toward the cloud deck enshrouding K Peak, you can actually make out the bottom of the snow. <BR> <BR>Enjoy.
 
Thanks for this link ! The snow looked a little bit brown, but damn I wouldn' care of that, skiing in june ! One day, I'll really have to make the trip to K, after St-So's closure, to see how it can be. <BR> <BR>About the fact they removed the lift, yes, that was normal to add a new gondola, but it was sad to remove the double chairlift. I never went there, but remembering of the trail map, it seems to me that the gondola doesn't use the same way than the double chair, on lower part of the Killington peak ? If it wasn't the same exact location on the upper mountain, the best thing would have been to keep the old double + the gondola, to allow october skiing more easily + being a second possibility when there is large crowds. (anyway, It's really speculative as I never went there...) <BR> <BR>For the Liftlines / No bulls, honestly, I admit to almost never read the liftlines (sorry) as my direct link is for the East-jan to present. But the liftlines could be interesting, as the long conversations are some "liftlines" in fact, just like this huge one + the one of the "ultimate end of season trail". (BTW, I even just recently seen that you posted the e-mail I sent you last december which was my first contact with FTO) <BR> <BR>For the reactions to posts, I think it's possibly helping to post some pics, cause if there is just text, it's hard to really "enter in the story". It's why I always post some pics (especially as it's some ski areas that nobody knew on this board). Only problem is that it should take a good server for all those datas (and sometimes I exagerated a little bit for the number of pics). <BR> <BR>Finally, it's fun to see we have new writers (Patrick and Kevin). The more we are, the more it's fun ! and your points, Patrick are really interesting + I'm really eager to see your K pics !! (Pat & Kevin)
 
I have e-mailed the web administrator this morning requesting an account. I purchased a scanner(joined the 21st century) and scanned a few pictures of Cascade from October 2nd 1992. <BR>When I the chance this evening I will see how to get the pictures on this web site.
 
This is possibly the most interesting discussion on resort development/season-lenght that I have ever read. I hadn't even hear of this site until a few weeks ago when I was planning a trip to K for some skiing on the weekend of the 16-18th. Now I read it every day to see how it has evolved (and so see some cool pics). <BR> <BR>My friend an I drove from Toronto to K that weekend to ski superstar (it had been a dream to ski on my birthday in May since I was a kid). I have to say, if we were willing to drive 9 hours each way to ski in May for one weekend, it doesn't matter which resort in New England or Quebec does it, there IS a big enough population demand for late season/early summer skiing. Think about it for a minute. Southern Ontario and Southern Quebec have a total of about 6 million residents, there is the population of New England and some larger metropolitan cities which would have roughly similar figures. So a low estimate would give a population base of at least 10 million people. Even if there were only .1% of them interested in skiing in July, that's still 10000 people. <BR> <BR>There is a demand. Some resort should feed it.
 
Does anyone remember Killington using salt to preserve the snow at the bottom of superstar(especially near the lift)?. I recall seeing them use this stuff in may 94-95. Having skied Timberline in August I know they use this heavily to preserve the snow cover. There may also be enviornmental reasons for not having snow on one run for 8-9 months of the year. It cannot be good for the plants, trees and or animals that make that trail home during the year. This is just a thought but maybe it is a concern to a ski area. <BR>This would not stop me from sliding over grass , mud and occasionally even some snow late into June or beyond.
 
Short answer (I'm in a course). Jonny, you're lucky to have skied on your birthday... me, it's on August 1, so it's a little bit hard to reach in the east (although Lftgly did it 2 years ago ! lololol (see the link few messages before). <BR> <BR>Effectively, on my side also, it's one of the most interesting ski conversation I've ever seen (#1 for end of season discussions). <BR> <BR>And Yes, we are a huge market and we should show this to the ski areas <IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> <BR> <BR>Kevin... an account ? for this board ? I don't know if the people have an account here, but I don't. Glad to see you bought a scanner. <BR> <BR>Tip. If you want old pics of late skiing in the east, check the archives of the no-bulls, there is some real nice pics of the last 2-3 years !
 
Yep, for salt, this is really used in the west, but in the east, never heard about that... despite it would be an interesting thing for K.
 
Frank: Can you give me any advise on how to post pictures on the site. I have 3 pictures of Cascade <BR>scanned onto my hard drive, but how do I get them here? Perhaps I could e-mail you the pictures? Any help would be most appreciated. I have decided to visit Mt Orford for a day trip from Sugarloaf next year. I read the reviews of the place from some American skiers and it gets high marks for expert terrain, but low marks for icy <BR>begginner terrain. Im taking this trip with my 4 year old son who has only about 10 days of ski experience. Is it better to leave him with my wife at Sugarloaf and go alone? Thanks
 
Thank you for the compliments Frank, <BR> <BR>Just a few lines for now. <BR>I believe I have been aware of firsttracks for a few years, but I never contributed on the no-bull or discussions. <BR> <BR>I will try to scan my best late season K pics and post them, however I will probably not be before the weekend. <BR> <BR>Some from my ski day on my birthday - June 11 1992(second time I skiied on my birthday, the first was on my first trip out west at Blackcomb 1988). I came close a few times after that (94, 96), but K close just before. In 1997, I had a job and I couldn't get off work - so I skied on the weekend after (June 15). <BR> <BR>Kevin, I might be wrong here, but I think that K might use salt a few times to preserve the snow access to the bottom of lift on Superstar in 1997. (see Frank pic of June 97 I believe where you see a path snow leading toward the lift, oops in not in this discussion maybe LaReserve or St-Sauveur).
 
Hello very short answer cause it's not easy when the teacher talk (damn summer courses) <BR> <BR><A HREF="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/board-formatting.html" TARGET="_top">http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/board-formatting.html</A>#images <BR> <BR>if it doesn't work, you can e-mail me the images (if not too big), on <A HREF="mailto:frankontour502@yahoo.com">frankontour502@yahoo.com</A> <BR> <BR>you better make them under 40kb, cause you can't post some pics bigger than that. (not always easy) <BR> <BR>back 2 my course <BR> <BR>hey, close to 100 messages <IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> lol
 
100.... <BR> <BR>Franks pics from K in June (the date is 98, but 97) is in the discussion from St-Sauveur / LaReserve (email from May 20).
 
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