icelanticskier
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Toomany
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Rippersdude
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this weeks sign that the apocalypse is upon us
- Thread starter joegm
- Start date
joegm
New member
Geoff wrote:
Why would the resort do that?
You're asking a resort to do that to a few trails a couple of times per week? Puh-lease.
If you don't like the shape of the moguls, maybe you should start a campaign to make everybody go back to 200cm straight skis.
They're not going to make a bump course for the general public because it would get ruined every day and they'd have to reconstruct it at a pretty major expense
Nyberg wrote:
We are increasing the hours that we will groom this season, with a focus on renovating and winching
Dictionary.reference.com wrote
Renovate: ( verb) – to restore to good condition…to make new or as if new again….repair
T. ruth
U. ltimately
R. equires
D. dedication
game set match...
Why would the resort do that?
You're asking a resort to do that to a few trails a couple of times per week? Puh-lease.
If you don't like the shape of the moguls, maybe you should start a campaign to make everybody go back to 200cm straight skis.
They're not going to make a bump course for the general public because it would get ruined every day and they'd have to reconstruct it at a pretty major expense
Nyberg wrote:
We are increasing the hours that we will groom this season, with a focus on renovating and winching
Dictionary.reference.com wrote
Renovate: ( verb) – to restore to good condition…to make new or as if new again….repair
T. ruth
U. ltimately
R. equires
D. dedication
game set match...
joegm
New member
the hipocracy express with geoff the bus driver rolls on:
geoff wrote: ( on this site )
"They only build terrain parks and half pipes because there's huge market demand for them."
"Bear Mountain used to be bumper heaven. The market changed. It's now a big terrain park and half pipe. Deal with it."
then geoff wrote ( on another site )
"I thought it had been the 2nd weekend in April for quite a few years. They moved it a week earlier recently because of that Spring Loaded thing but that didn't happen until after they trashed Bear with half pipes and terrain parks."
ridiculous
:roll:
geoff wrote: ( on this site )
"They only build terrain parks and half pipes because there's huge market demand for them."
"Bear Mountain used to be bumper heaven. The market changed. It's now a big terrain park and half pipe. Deal with it."
then geoff wrote ( on another site )
"I thought it had been the 2nd weekend in April for quite a few years. They moved it a week earlier recently because of that Spring Loaded thing but that didn't happen until after they trashed Bear with half pipes and terrain parks."
ridiculous
:roll:
joegm
New member
geoff wrote:
Why would the resort do that? Counting depreciation, the hourly cost to operate grooming equipment is huge. Go ask a contractor to dig a foundation for you. That's using comparable equipment and takes a comparable amount of time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fth44N-3P0
by my rough estimate, this cat operator built one line of 10 turns of roughed in moguls in 1 minute and 30 seconds...
simple arithmetic question of the day : how long would it take to build 2 lines of 40 turns in?
a) as long as it would take to dig a foundation for a house
b) 30 minutes or so...for a grand total of 1 hour per month if done once every 2 weeks
c) it doesn't matter cause one hour or so of cat and labor time per month would kill the operating margins of any resort who attempted such a wasteful expenditure
:roll:
geoff wrote:
They're not going to make a bump course for the general public because it would get Ruined every day and they'd have to reconstruct it at a pretty major expense
i know 2 people who skied killington today, april 6th.....the course for the bmmc was put in 8 days ago.... the 2 dudes who i know who skied K today said the course was skiing very well... 8 DAYS LATER.... there are pictures of the course from today on kzone... sure doesn't look ruined to me
the lack of understanding of this issue is pathetic
Why would the resort do that? Counting depreciation, the hourly cost to operate grooming equipment is huge. Go ask a contractor to dig a foundation for you. That's using comparable equipment and takes a comparable amount of time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fth44N-3P0
by my rough estimate, this cat operator built one line of 10 turns of roughed in moguls in 1 minute and 30 seconds...
simple arithmetic question of the day : how long would it take to build 2 lines of 40 turns in?
a) as long as it would take to dig a foundation for a house
b) 30 minutes or so...for a grand total of 1 hour per month if done once every 2 weeks
c) it doesn't matter cause one hour or so of cat and labor time per month would kill the operating margins of any resort who attempted such a wasteful expenditure
:roll:
geoff wrote:
They're not going to make a bump course for the general public because it would get Ruined every day and they'd have to reconstruct it at a pretty major expense
i know 2 people who skied killington today, april 6th.....the course for the bmmc was put in 8 days ago.... the 2 dudes who i know who skied K today said the course was skiing very well... 8 DAYS LATER.... there are pictures of the course from today on kzone... sure doesn't look ruined to me
the lack of understanding of this issue is pathetic
joegm
New member
from the killington web site
scroll down to the 12th post by skidork
http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/vi ... c&start=15
the way it ought to be
scroll down to the 12th post by skidork
http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/vi ... c&start=15
the way it ought to be
kmartshopper
New member
late to the thread ... long time k passholder who thought it was one of the worst seasons ever for bumps at k. weather certainly played a big part in it and while i love bumped nat runs, wrecking my skis on the fiddle, flush or needles liftline just isn't as much as it used to be for me. maybe i'm just getting old ...
i'm with joe on seeding & maintaining bumps on a couple of the snowmaking trails. geoff's argument about expense just doesn't jive with me when i look at all the money spent, particularly in terms of snowmaking on the way underutilized terrain parks at k. we often ski through them because they're usually deserted and seem more like reserved runs. seeding & maintaining a couple bump runs would cost a fraction of that.
i'm thinking maybe three or four runs: lower needles (they did this for a few seasons during the early asc days), grizzly, lower ol and maybe even one of the upper snowden green runs (they've also done that in the past). i'm sure they'd get a hell of lot more action than the terrain parks. and from trail reports i've read, even the much maligned okemo has more seeded/maintained bump runs than the once mighty k. very sad. really no excuse.
i'm with joe on seeding & maintaining bumps on a couple of the snowmaking trails. geoff's argument about expense just doesn't jive with me when i look at all the money spent, particularly in terms of snowmaking on the way underutilized terrain parks at k. we often ski through them because they're usually deserted and seem more like reserved runs. seeding & maintaining a couple bump runs would cost a fraction of that.
i'm thinking maybe three or four runs: lower needles (they did this for a few seasons during the early asc days), grizzly, lower ol and maybe even one of the upper snowden green runs (they've also done that in the past). i'm sure they'd get a hell of lot more action than the terrain parks. and from trail reports i've read, even the much maligned okemo has more seeded/maintained bump runs than the once mighty k. very sad. really no excuse.
joegm
New member
thanks for posting the support... i've been a little depressed at the lack of postings in support of the idea...even if you are not a hard core bumper, the logic of this should be crystal clear... there have been a few who seem to get it, but not nearly enough for such a hard core site of skiers.
of course geoff is wrong with his argument on this...he is a smart guy who makes a lot of good observations about what is going on over there ... but he is dead wrong on this issue...killington is one of the places that absolutely has no defense whatsoever on the issue... terrain, money, resources, a history....it's inexcusable for them...
you are spot on about the deserted parks monday through friday...it's the biggest fraud in the industry right now that people don't realize...the expense ratio to usage is a joke... but no barking about that from geoff at all
of course geoff is wrong with his argument on this...he is a smart guy who makes a lot of good observations about what is going on over there ... but he is dead wrong on this issue...killington is one of the places that absolutely has no defense whatsoever on the issue... terrain, money, resources, a history....it's inexcusable for them...
you are spot on about the deserted parks monday through friday...it's the biggest fraud in the industry right now that people don't realize...the expense ratio to usage is a joke... but no barking about that from geoff at all
Joegm's nightmare continues:
http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/vi ... 284#314284
http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/vi ... 284#314284
A random browse of KZone indicates that Geoff is considering pulling up stakes. Not a good sign for Powdr Corp if even homeowners are thinking about going elsewhere.
Tony Crocker":uod482y2 said:
Hasn't he been threatening to move elsewhere for several years now?
:lol:
Regardless, Killington's core audience doesn't seem to be very happy.
Geoff
New member
jamesdeluxe":1b8s32pe said:
Yep. I've been seriously considering it for about 3 years now. I've pretty much narrowed it down to Sugar-something. Two years ago, I spent a lot of time at Sugarloaf. The property tax rates and real estate prices make the place very attractive. The wind scouring and wind hold issues with nowhere to hide are an issue. I've been skiing Sugarbush and Mad River since the 1970's and that's my other option. I'm not really big on the Vermont Act 68 school tax but Vermont has the natural snow and terrain.
Sugarloaf seems to be a star in late season, but I have to believe the Mad River Valley yields substantially more quality ski days per season on average.
Geoff:
How much of a hit have K-Land property values taken because of the nonstop bad press Powdr Corp has earned?
How much of a hit have K-Land property values taken because of the nonstop bad press Powdr Corp has earned?
Geoff
New member
jamesdeluxe":3n07i0hs said:
Probably close to zero.
In case you haven't noticed, real estate is doing lousy everywhere at the moment and I think Killington is down around 20% from the peak just like everywhere else at the eastern ski resorts. POWDR chased away the bargain hunters. That is not the class of person likely to be buying a vacation home in town. That also is not the class of person likely to be shelling out big bucks to rent a condo or house so rentals in town didn't have a bad year. The weak dollar also put a lot of European and Brit bodies on the Access Road. POWDR also detoxed the resort on weekends and holidays. That actually makes the resort more attractive to many affluent buyers.
Specific properties probably took a hit. If you own a condo at Pico or a house on the trails on the lower stage of the Skyeship, the 5 day operating schedule had to have hurt your property values since you're no longer ski-in/ski-out for your midweek rentals. If you have a ratty old rental house that still has the burnt orange shag carpet and harvest gold applicances, you may be having a tough time finding a share house to take it for next season. Some of that is POWDR but a lot of it is just the demographic change where the newest generation entering the ski house scene doesn't want to cram 2 sets of bunk beds in a bedroom and share a bathroom with 8 people. With the reduced skier visits, commercial real estate is definitely not doing as well but there haven't been the business failures yet that send the commercial market into freefall. Some of the ski shops did really well from the weak dollar where Europeans would come in and spend like crazy since everything was half price. The restaurants also did pretty well though Europeans tip lousy so the wait staff was complaining. I was around in 1989/1990. I bought my place in 1993 at the bottom. It's nothing like it was then when condos and commercial space were being foreclosed and there were auctions at the troubled condos.
The negative things POWDR did just don't impact most weekenders. Nobody cares about lifetime passes going away. Nobody cares that a bunch of full time workers were laid off and offered part time jobs with no benefits. Weekenders don't care that Pico, Skyeship Stage 1, and most of the base lodges were operating on limited schedules midweek. Most weekenders don't ski in October and don't have the skills or fitness level to ski in late-April and May. Day ticket prices are comparable to previous years. Season pass prices are cheaper than 6 years ago and there is still a blackout pass that is a great value. The only one I scratch my head about is that POWDR really jacked up their kid program prices. That does scare away some of the premium business they say they want.
I'm pissed about the shortened season but there really aren't that many of us out there on opening day or in May. I think POWDR is stupid for killing spring skiing since they can show a modest profit in April and early May with a weekend-only business but it probably doesn't chase all that many people away.