Europe 23/24

[Tony Crocker]

Not sure what you have against Pacific cities and Left Coast skiing , but Portland PDX is as convenient as a Spokane GEG trip.

Yes, but the real attraction for James would be a corn snow long weekend at Bachelor in late April after he usually posts his season recap.

And since James doesn't like the 3 hour drives from airport to ski town, he can do a one stop connection into the Redmond airport. Liz flew into Redmond from Florida on 4 days notice in 2021.

For James' consideration below, this is the same weekend in 2024 that Liz and I scored in 2021:

The American route is a bit longer but allows a full ski day at the end with the redeye from Phoenix-Newark. The Alaska route would allow you to ski until maybe 11AM on departure day.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Is New Zealand as bad? I only have been to the South Island once - after Australia - and did a summer/Jan loop from Christchurch: Marlborough, Franz Joseph Glacier, and Queenstown. Lots of winding roads. Assume fly (or drive to Queenstown from Christchurch?)

Not nearly as bad from the West Coast, though it's a true marathon from the East. Nonstop to Auckland with connection to Christchurch or Queenstown.

My first trip in Aug/Sep 1982 was 2 weeks: Start Christchurch with one way drive to Queenstown via Mt. Cook. Flight Queenstown to Rotorua, one way drive to Auckland. Hopefully NZ is still reasonable for the one way car rentals. I have been to NZ 6x, once in November to hike the Milford Track, then Bay of Islands and Poor Knights' scuba day on North Island. 2019 was a 24 hour layover in Auckland so Liz and I drove to Rotorua for the day. 1997 and 2006 ski trips were one week to Queenstown including one day in Fiordland. 2010 ski trip was to Christchurch with two days on the west coast.

If ChrisC has only one week, I would recommend either:
Queenstown: Southern Lakes ski areas plus one day Milford Sound and one day Harris Heliski.
Christchurch: Mt. Hutt, Porters, club fields, maybe an excursion to Mt. Cook for heli.

Only the 2006 ski trip had consistent snow quality on a par with western North America. Overall I'd pick the Patrick late August time frame if forced to commit in advance for max coverage and maybe some steep areas are in spring mode rather than frozen. However ChrisC just went to Chile on short notice, so perhaps he could do the same in New Zealand.

 

[Sbooker]

Maybe it's the media. Not every block of Portland, San Francisco, or Seattle is overrun by homeless, filled with Fentanyl overdoses, or ripe with car break-ins.

You’re correct. When we were in Portland in April some neighbourhoods around the Downtown area (like Goose Hollow near the gardens) were pictures of suburban perfection while just a mile away was carnage.

 

[Sbooker]

On Europe. My travel partner is doing a 12 week (one in person lesson per week) French course at the moment. She’s quite enthusiastic about it and is conversing in broken French around the house with my daughter who did French for 6 years in high school.
She has hijacked our Europe trip. I had hoped for some time in Italy but although we’re flying into Milan and haven’t booked anything there’s talk of day tours in Lyon etc. We’ve committed to the second half of the trip being in Austria but I can see the first half will be mainly in France.
Less than 100 days until wheels up for us.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Maybe it's the media. Not every block of Portland, San Francisco, or Seattle is overrun by homeless, filled with Fentanyl overdoses, or ripe with car break-ins.

New Yorker just posted what seems to be a relatively nuanced feature article about SF's "urban doom loop."

An interesting quote about the Tenderloin that could be said about many cities:
“When I walk by a luxury hotel downtown and I see four police officers standing there—just standing there, for hours—and then I walk four blocks away, to the Tenderloin, where I have a merchant who’s, like, ‘Why is there no beat cop walking around here?,’ I would challenge any leader to look that merchant in the eye and say, ‘Oh, it’s because we have too few police officers.”

 

[jasoncapecod]

Great prices to portland..
I was suppose to be in Greece and Israel this coming week. Well that ain't happening. I am now the proud owner of a lot delta and El Al credits.. Agean Air gave me back 25% of my ticket , i took the cash..

 

[jamesdeluxe]

the real attraction for James would be a corn snow long weekend at Bachelor in late April after he usually posts his season recap

I would enjoy that but you're neglecting the "stick" issue that Chris mentioned earlier -- preposterously expensive lift tickets unless you have one of the megapasses. Below is the cheapskate price for Bachelor: $115/day when purchased as a four-pack! I may as well just buy the Ikon Base Pass for $1K and forgo going across the ocean. Sorry, Alps are the better option.

I'll save Bachelor and others (both in the east and west) for when I have time to properly take advantage of the Ikon.

 

[ChrisC]

Thanks. I'm inclined to wait it out awhile since our dates are flexible.

Start looking around. One World Airlines just launched a winter price reduction - not sure how many routes. Assume Delta/Sky Team will have to match soon.

 

[ChrisC]

Yes, but the real attraction for James would be a corn snow long weekend at Bachelor in late April after he usually posts his season recap.

And since James doesn't like the 3 hour drives from airport to ski town, he can do a one stop connection into the Redmond airport. Liz flew into Redmond from Florida on 4 days notice in 2021.

For James' consideration below, this is the same weekend in 2024 that Liz and I scored in 2021:

I forgot that Bend even has an airport. That's not a crazy fare, but I like driving by Mt Hood and having the option of skiing Timberline or MHM.

I have skied Mt. Bachelor 2x:

1. April 2001 / Easter A wet snowstorm at Mt. Hood Meadows was dry powder at Mt. Bachelor - almost a foot. Calm conditions allowed the backside to stay open in prime condition for 3 days. Easy to find fresh days after as you descend from the summit since the terrain expands due to the conical nature of the volcanic mountain - the opposite of a bowl. Also, the lower mountain Cinder Cone stayed fresh for days - an easy 5-minute hike.
2. February 2020 / President's. Perfect powder at Mt. Hood Meadows and Mt. Hood SkiBowl - best ever. 500-foot snow levels - very low for Oregon. Unfortunately less snow at Bachelor and more wind. The Summit was windblown on NW faces down to frozen surfaces from a rain event in late January. East and South faces were good - as well as the entire lower mountain. Interesting story: Met a young husband/wife with children on the lift from SF. The wife was a member of the Haas family - Levi Strauss fortune/billons (endowed everything in the Bay Area: SF Moma, UC Berkeley, Oakland As, Boys/Girls Club, etc) - and said they only skied at Mt. Bachelor vs. Tahoe due to crowds, snow, and terrain. Interesting choice for someone who could ski anywhere.

 

[ChrisC]

I'll save Bachelor and others (both in the east and west) for when I have time to properly take advantage of the Ikon.

I understand that sentiment.

I have only been able to justify Mountain Collective Passes for a few years: during 2016-2020 - especially when you could ski Squaw/Alpine, Whistler, Telluride, Aspen, Jackson, Lake Lousie, Sunshine, Revelstoke, Niseko, Vallee Nevado, Chamonix. And when they would discount them to the industry.

I do get a few IKON day tickets to use.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Other than having to change planes in LHR (good luck with a 75-minute layover going from AA to BA terminals!), that's a great deal. Is there a reason why your searches are for the first week of the Euro winter holidays?

 

[ChrisC]

Other than having to change planes in LHR (good luck with a 75-minute layover going from AA to BA terminals!), that's a great deal. Is there a reason why your searches are for the first week of the Euro winter holidays?

Because it's NOT the French School Holidays?

I think late January/early February is the sweet spot for the Alps: pre-school holidays, low crowds, reduced lodging costs (Jan), generally enough snow for some extreme terrain/off-piste/couloirs, full verticals open, valleys covered in snow, etc. (However, some areas like Chamonix/Aguille du Midi, La Grave and Zermatt might need more snow for steep terrain).

Geneva is the gateways to French Alps, Western Switzerland/Valais and Aosta Valley of Italy. You can avoid any early February bump by going to Italy (no schoold holidays) or Switzerland for that period.

I typically track flights for this 2 week period from SFO, NYC or MIA to Geneva, Milan, Zurich and Munich.

Most desirable flight from SFO is direct to Zurich via Swiss Air. Or something from East Coast/NYC that gets you to the Alps by 7/8am for a full ski day.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Those cash fares you're pulling for LAX/SFO are cheaper than what I'm finding for the same dates for EWR. As mentioned, I'm not panicking. I haven't paid cash to fly across the Atlantic since the late 00s and I'm not going to start now!

 

[tseeb]

I would enjoy that but you're neglecting the "stick" issue that Chris mentioned earlier -- preposterously expensive lift tickets unless you have one of the megapasses. Below is the cheapskate price for Bachelor: $115/day when purchased as a four-pack!

Bachelor usually lowers on day tickets in Spring and offers a Spring pass good for 1 1/2 - 2 months for about $300.

I thought I was only having trouble editing my replies from iPhone, but unable to delete what I see below on laptop.

 

[ChrisC]

Those cash fares you're pulling for LAX/SFO are cheaper than what I'm finding for the same dates for EWR. As mentioned, I'm not panicking. I haven't paid cash to fly across the Atlantic since the late 00s and I'm not going to start now!

I often book the AA Basic Economy fares because its restrictions do not apply to me due to my AA Status and Credit Card:

Does having elite status help?
Yes, having AAdvantage or Oneworld elite status helps. Specifically, elite members get the following benefits even when flying on a basic economy fare:

• Normal boarding group.
• Standard checked baggage benefits.
• Usual upgrade privileges including systemwide upgrades and standard mileage upgrades.
• Complimentary preferred and Main Cabin Extra seat benefits based on elite status.
• Complimentary confirmed same-day flight changes for AAdvantage Executive Platinum and AAdvantage Platinum Pro.
• In short, if you have AAdvantage elite status, it might make sense to book basic economy if the fare is significantly lower.

At worst, I check my ski bag for free, receive a good boarding group, and choose an exit row or better seat - sometimes getting Premium Economy.


Given AA mileage redemptions and AA Basic Economy fare policies, I am quite loyal to the program. Especially after recent United changes.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Given AA mileage redemptions and AA Basic Economy fare policies, I am quite loyal to the program. Especially after recent United changes

When I lived in Brooklyn up through the early 00s, AAdvantage played a bigger role in my international travels as I flew out of JFK more often than not and they had nonstop European (ski) destinations. That's no longer the case (see graphic below); only Milan is left! For Zurich on AA, I have to fly through Philadelphia, which is doable but not optimal. Moreover, I don't want to have to fly through LHR to reach the ski gateways that I get nonstop from United. That's why I recently used up my AA miles.

I've wondered on FTO how much longer AA was going to continue offering FF awards that on a day-to-day basis are cheaper than the other legacy carriers. It's surprising/heartening that they still haven't squared their awards with United and Delta. I guess it's similar to Southwest still offering free checked luggage despite the fact that all the other airlines make a fortune off it.

That said; when United and Delta offer FF sales (and I/we usually jump on them), they're cheaper than AA's discounted awards.

 

[ChrisC]

When I lived in Brooklyn up through the early 00s, AAdvantage played a bigger role in my international travels as I flew out of JFK more often than not and they had nonstop European (ski) destinations. That's no longer the case (see graphic below); only Milan is left! For Zurich, I have to fly through Philadelphia, which is doable but not optimal. Moreover, I don't want to have to fly through LHR to reach the ski gateways that I get nonstop from United. That's why I recently used up my AA miles.

View attachment 37721

I've wondered on FTO how much longer AA was going to continue offering FF awards that on a day-to-day basis are cheaper than the other legacy carriers. It's surprising/heartening that they still haven't squared their awards with United and Delta. I guess it's similar to Southwest still offering free checked luggage despite the fact that all the other airlines make a fortune off it.

That said; when United and Delta offer FF sales (and I/we usually jump on them), they're cheaper than AA's discounted awards.

American officially switched to Dynamic Pricing last year, but their 'web special' FF fares just became their standard awards. They are not too difficult to find - see below the Main Cabin chart. The big increases were in Premium Economy and Business/First. But I am fine with a large legroom seat, one bag checked (boots/ski clothing come with me onboard), and decent boarding priority. Much more about the 'destination' versus the transportation 'journey'.

I have only done 2 FF premium/business class awards:

• Japan in Jan/Feb 2020. AA was having a sale: 40k each way business class.
• Australia in January 2004. United allowed me to book SFO->SYD->Christchurch->Auckland->SFO. It was a 60k itinerary for business class somehow back in the day. Able to sit upstairs on a Boeing 747 "Queen of the Skies" SFO->Sydney leg. It took an understanding agent to make that one work - and business school friends piled on.

At my last tech startup, we/I sold and implemented American Airlines's technology, payments, and financing (Citi & JPMorgan our partners) for its global freight service. We also handled the technology and payments for its Corporate Credit Card program. I was in DFW HQ a lot during sales and implementation. So I have some allegiance/pride through that experience - and could talk FF awards sometimes.

We also handled Hilton's Honors Program, Hyatt's World of Hyatt Program, and Hyatt's special events. There it was very easy to talk about rewards with clients. I also could look at their data in our software to see 'good' redemption levels and frequency.

 

[ChrisC]

Looks like Delta, Delta and United partners have joined the winter Geneva airfare sale for almost everyday. Likely the best of the season. (United proper - not really).

+$170 for Delta Economy, but I do not know how Delta upgrades/what is allowed in basic fares

No change in FF awards - weird. I thought they were supposed to mirror $ prices somewhat.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Great fares from LA but the first checked bag costs $150 each way for those with no status? Wow, how's that for capitalism's invisible hand at work?!


Here's a WP article about Delta's partial rollback of its hugely unpopular FF changes. There are all sorts of arguments to be made -- check out the comments -- but the one that seems reasonable is limiting access to lounges. My experience with United is that starting around 4 pm on weekdays they stop allowing single-entry passes to avoid overcrowding from the silver hoi polloi like me. Thus, if I'm catching an overnight flight leaving in the early evening, I try to get to the lounges no later than 3:30.

 

[ChrisC]

Great fares from LA but the first checked bag costs $150 each way for those with no status? Wow, how's that for capitalism's invisible hand at work?!

That's why I quoted the Economy fare as well which includes seats, checked luggage, etc. It's +$170 or $720 total.

I don't know if Delta allows card members and status tiers to receive seat selection, upgrades, priority boarding and checked bags like American.

United seems to be protecting that NEW to GVA route for now.

Also, JetBlue is/was partners with AA and gave you elite status. I could book the cheapest JetBlue fare and still have priority boarding, seats, baggage etc. For example, I could fly weekdays on JetBlue on their cheap I weekday fares SFO to Marthas Vineyard for $250-300rt. Partner has Home/rental property/family there)