I don't really know what the relationship of East vs. West Coast airfare prices to Europe are historically.
Europe 23/24
- Thread starter Sbooker
- Start date
Per James request, the general discussion of airports is moved to the air travel thread.
ChrisC
Well-known member
James,
The United/Star Alliance European Winter airfare and miles sale is ON as of today!
Geneva or Milan from any US City is $620 rt - EXCEPT Firdays & Sundays
OR
60k+ FF miles
OR
Even the flight I booked last week is cheaper: $750 -> $680. Not sure if it is worth rebooking (cancel 2 tickets, apply credit, go through upgrade process)
Looking at other West Coast ski towns: it's almost the same price to get to Steamboat, Jackson Hole, Aspen, Gunnison, etc as to Europe.
You can Heli-ski on Mont Blanc for about the same price as to buy a full day tram ticket at Big Sky....and just slightly more than Jackson Hole.
The United/Star Alliance European Winter airfare and miles sale is ON as of today!
Geneva or Milan from any US City is $620 rt - EXCEPT Firdays & Sundays
OR
60k+ FF miles
OR
Even the flight I booked last week is cheaper: $750 -> $680. Not sure if it is worth rebooking (cancel 2 tickets, apply credit, go through upgrade process)
Looking at other West Coast ski towns: it's almost the same price to get to Steamboat, Jackson Hole, Aspen, Gunnison, etc as to Europe.
You can Heli-ski on Mont Blanc for about the same price as to buy a full day tram ticket at Big Sky....and just slightly more than Jackson Hole.
Last edited:
ChrisC
Well-known member
You have to be a bit careful with Google searches. Unless you have status and/or credit card that gives you bags - you will get hit by a $150/flight checked bag fee, so it adds $300. Generally, an Economy fare is better. But if you have an AA card or United, bags are covered.
Last edited:
jamesdeluxe
Administrator
Are you threatening to pull the trigger on your long-awaited Alps trip?
ChrisC
Well-known member
ChrisC
Well-known member
I don't know how much spend I am ever going to put on my United Card again. Keep it for some trips, bags, and credit line.
But their FF awards are almost horrendous now, and a 2-3% cash-back card is better. An Apple card or Capital One card can give you $600 on $30k spend. This gets you to Europe. 30k United FF miles gets you nowhere near Europe - or halfway there.
It's really time to reconsider all these mileage programs - especially Delta and United. You no longer can earn meaningful miles flying. And they have devalued miles so much that even credit spend is no longer a great method anymore.
But their FF awards are almost horrendous now, and a 2-3% cash-back card is better. An Apple card or Capital One card can give you $600 on $30k spend. This gets you to Europe. 30k United FF miles gets you nowhere near Europe - or halfway there.
It's really time to reconsider all these mileage programs - especially Delta and United. You no longer can earn meaningful miles flying. And they have devalued miles so much that even credit spend is no longer a great method anymore.
jamesdeluxe
Administrator
From Newark, the non-discount price to GVA and ZRH is currently 65K, which I'd only pay a few days in advance if I knew that we were looking at powder.
I agree with your general point but am reserving judgement until the award sale happens. That said; I enjoy the United Club access and the free luggage is a major consideration. You get nailed for the latter without an airline credit card or status -- $300 roundtrip to Europe with basic Economy or a more expensive Economy Plus ticket. "Pay me now or pay me later" as they used to say in that motor oil commercial.
jnelly
Member
Definitely, but yes, I got bags covered. @jamesdeluxe this is the plan indeed. Gotta scan my schedule and wrestle over jan or march but its on the " "list".
jnelly
Member
I wonder if you've also encountered this: Let's say you find a flight with optimal prices and times via Google and then log into Chase travel Portal and try to book the same flight (bc who doesn't want to redeem try to redeem these for 5x the points). It seems like one of the optimal legs you found initially is not even available thru this Chase portal. Theres definitely a lot of carrots attached to these cards.
jamesdeluxe
Administrator
Why do you need to book through the Chase portal? Can't you just use the United site?
ChrisC
Well-known member
Yes. I have a Chase Sapphire Card and it's my main card due to earnings via spend, promos, airport lounges and transfer partners.
Despite the fact Chase mainly white labels Expedia Group's search engine for point redemption/purchases - you do not always get what is found on Expedia. Sometimes fares will show up 24 hours later. I do not think Chase's listings are real-time. More like data is processed on a fixed schedule. End-of-day batch files still rule at banks - why it's so easy for Fintechs to find areas of expertise in the financial system.
Unfortunately credit spend is the only way to get status, which avoids bag fees and gets lounge access plus some other perks. However, I have 936K miles flown on Delta and partners and so will get lifetime Gold status when I reach a million miles. Since I'll rarely if ever get past Gold based upon credit spend and travel, I can see changing my credit card strategy once I get to a million miles.
No change on Delta's prices either cash or award vs. what I paid Saturday. Is the $620 East Coast cash price a good value in historical context?
Yes. Anything outside North America seems no better than 1 cent/mile these days. And this year the cash prices are going on sale but the mileage prices are not. Perhaps the airlines would rather fill these planes with $620 cash fares than ever offer a mileage sale on the level of past years.
Last edited:
jnelly
Member
Its more bait as I see it. When you purchase thru it you GET 5x more points when purchasing or redeem existing points are worth ~1.25X what they would be normally. End of the day its as ChrisC says, third party site with all potential for "call the third party booking site" game that sometimes comes with these
ChrisC
Well-known member
Looks like some snow bases will start to accumulate up high. Interesting storm.
wepowder.com
Stormy days with lots of snow
We end this mostly warm and dry October month in the Alps with a bang. The snow forecast shows some red clours again, so we can expect a lot of snow! Right...
wepowder.com
jamesdeluxe
Administrator
From Weather to Ski:
Updated: 11am Tuesday 31 October 2023 - Turning very stormy across the Alps…
The weather in the Alps remains very unsettled, with one active weather front having delivered snow to the northern and western Alps overnight and doing the same for the eastern Alps today. Withfurther significant storms also on the way, snow depths will soon be looking quite impressive at altitude across a good part of the Alps.
The currently active front reached the northern and western Alps last night, bringing cooler air and snow to 1500m or lower in places overnight. It is now slowly clearing the eastern Alps, though not before also delivering snow to 1500m or lower across parts of Austria and eastern Switzerland.
In the south-east (e.g. Dolomites) the rain/snow limit will remain a bit higher for longer. Further west, a good part of Switzerland is experiencing a drier slot though, as we speak, showers (snow1600-1800m) are moving back into the north-western Alps (e.g. Portes du Soleil).
After a mostly dry day tomorrow (Wednesday), storm Ciaran will reach the Alps on Thursday, marking the start of a major storm cycle across the Alps that will last through the weekend and maybe beyond.
We therefore expect significant snow to fall at altitude across most of the Alps over the next few days, with a rain/snow limit typically between 1300m and 2000m, perhaps a bit higher at times in the south-eastern Alps, and even a bit lower in the north-western Alps. Stay tuned!
Also, here's his summary of "who got the most snow?" for 2022-23:
In 2022-23 just about everywhere in the Alps saw below average snowfall. The only exceptions being some far eastern and south-eastern parts of the Austrian Alps (i.e. parts of Styria and eastern Carinthia) which, according to the Austrian meteorological association, saw snowfall close to or even a little above average.
In the northern French Alps, Avoriaz - statistically the snowiest French resort (at resort level, 1800m) - saw only 4.91m compared with its long-term average of around 7.5m. The resorts of the Tarentaise did a bit better (relatively speaking) with 4.81m in Val d’Isère (at 1850m)compared to an average of around 5.2m.
In Switzerland, snowfall totals were notably under par everywhere with around 3.99m of snow falling in Arosa (at 1800m) compared with its long-term average of around 5.5m.
Italian ski resorts were also uniformly below par. In the west, Cervinia managed only 3.98m at 2050m compared with its long-term average of over5m. Further east in the Dolomites, Arabba was also relatively dry with just 2.54m (at 1600m) - around 1m short of its historical average.
Except for some parts of eastern and south-eastern Austria (Styria and eastern Carinthia), where we have yet to receive data for any ski areas, most of the country also saw below par snowfall totals. Typical of many of the classic lower-lying resorts of the Tirol and Salzburgland, the Ski Welt clocked just 90cm between December and Aprilat 700m, well under half of what you might expect in an average year.
Higher and further west, in the notoriously snowy Vorarlberg province, Warth-Schröcken clocked a much more eye-catching 8.47m (at 1660m). This was significantly below its long term average of around 10.4m, but enough for us to once again crown it as the “snowiest ski resort in the Alps” in 2022-23, at least at or close to resort level.
Updated: 11am Tuesday 31 October 2023 - Turning very stormy across the Alps…
The weather in the Alps remains very unsettled, with one active weather front having delivered snow to the northern and western Alps overnight and doing the same for the eastern Alps today. Withfurther significant storms also on the way, snow depths will soon be looking quite impressive at altitude across a good part of the Alps.
The currently active front reached the northern and western Alps last night, bringing cooler air and snow to 1500m or lower in places overnight. It is now slowly clearing the eastern Alps, though not before also delivering snow to 1500m or lower across parts of Austria and eastern Switzerland.
In the south-east (e.g. Dolomites) the rain/snow limit will remain a bit higher for longer. Further west, a good part of Switzerland is experiencing a drier slot though, as we speak, showers (snow1600-1800m) are moving back into the north-western Alps (e.g. Portes du Soleil).
After a mostly dry day tomorrow (Wednesday), storm Ciaran will reach the Alps on Thursday, marking the start of a major storm cycle across the Alps that will last through the weekend and maybe beyond.
We therefore expect significant snow to fall at altitude across most of the Alps over the next few days, with a rain/snow limit typically between 1300m and 2000m, perhaps a bit higher at times in the south-eastern Alps, and even a bit lower in the north-western Alps. Stay tuned!
Also, here's his summary of "who got the most snow?" for 2022-23:
In 2022-23 just about everywhere in the Alps saw below average snowfall. The only exceptions being some far eastern and south-eastern parts of the Austrian Alps (i.e. parts of Styria and eastern Carinthia) which, according to the Austrian meteorological association, saw snowfall close to or even a little above average.
In the northern French Alps, Avoriaz - statistically the snowiest French resort (at resort level, 1800m) - saw only 4.91m compared with its long-term average of around 7.5m. The resorts of the Tarentaise did a bit better (relatively speaking) with 4.81m in Val d’Isère (at 1850m)compared to an average of around 5.2m.
In Switzerland, snowfall totals were notably under par everywhere with around 3.99m of snow falling in Arosa (at 1800m) compared with its long-term average of around 5.5m.
Italian ski resorts were also uniformly below par. In the west, Cervinia managed only 3.98m at 2050m compared with its long-term average of over5m. Further east in the Dolomites, Arabba was also relatively dry with just 2.54m (at 1600m) - around 1m short of its historical average.
Except for some parts of eastern and south-eastern Austria (Styria and eastern Carinthia), where we have yet to receive data for any ski areas, most of the country also saw below par snowfall totals. Typical of many of the classic lower-lying resorts of the Tirol and Salzburgland, the Ski Welt clocked just 90cm between December and Aprilat 700m, well under half of what you might expect in an average year.
Higher and further west, in the notoriously snowy Vorarlberg province, Warth-Schröcken clocked a much more eye-catching 8.47m (at 1660m). This was significantly below its long term average of around 10.4m, but enough for us to once again crown it as the “snowiest ski resort in the Alps” in 2022-23, at least at or close to resort level.
Last edited:
jamesdeluxe
Administrator
Fares continue to go down from EWR -- all of January and February are now available at $506. I'm holding out a bit longer for an award sale. 
ChrisC
Well-known member
Fares continue to go down from EWR -- all of January and February are now available at $506. I'm holding out a bit longer for an award sale.
Be careful. That airfare does not include bags and is not direct - requires flying through Washington-Dulles or Toronto. Looks like United is now employing standard $$$ hub pricing right now.
Also, I do not know how great United FF 'sales' are going to be with the new standard award at 80k. Assume something has to give since winter demand cannot support that award pricing. However, UAL (and Delta) seem happy to fill Europe-bound planes with discounted cash Economy fares.
However, the redemption rate for FF rewards for UAL and Delta is now almost <$0.01/pt.
American Airlines seems to still have decent rewards.
One of the best uses of miles - transfer points/miles to British Airways. BA uses a distance chart throughout the Caribbean (and Americas). So most of Miami to anywhere is 16-20k roundtrip vs. a $500-800 rt fare.
I think it's just time to change Frequent Flier strategies. Airline credit cards are not of much value. Go forward - spend will only be on my Chase Sapphire card. Great/good cash redemptions on the portal, lounges, and earnings.