How will ski areas fare with 5.00/gallon gas

Why are there no natural gas pipelines for heating in the Northeast, as in most of the country? Can you have gas heating for kitchen stoves, or is it all electric? Many cooks would not like that.

As many of you know natural gas is 1 carbon to 4 hydrogen vs. roughly 1 to 1 for gas and diesel; thus the least carbon intensive fossil fuel. Most of the power plants in California are natural gas in order to comply with strict air pollution requirements. Of course we're more than willing to consume coal-based electricity as long it comes from somewhere else.

As I may have mentioned before, the buses in SoCal are being converted to natural gas for air quality reasons also. And FWIW the winner for least carbon intensive car is the natural gas Civic, not the hybrid.
 
I've got natural gas. I knew it was less polluting, but didn't know it was better for global warming.

Saved me a bundle when I switched in 1991. Paid it off in about 4 years.

Map of natural gas pipelines in the northeast:
 

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Just thinking about driving in the past in France and our friend Q in the UK.

Not sure this sorry has been mentioned here (too much to pay :wink: attention in this thread).

U.S. gas: So cheap it hurts
Relatively low taxes have kept pump prices far below most other developed nations, which some say is precisely why the current runup is so painful.
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CNN, May 6th 2008 - U.S. gas: So cheap it hurts

I've added the countries were there's skiing, note that I'm not included places where there is indoor skiing.

Bogged down
Most expensive places to buy gas
Rank Country Price/gal
1. Eritrea $9.58
2. Norway $8.73
3. United Kingdom $8.38
4. Netherlands $8.37
5. Monaco $8.31
6. Iceland $8.28
7. Belgium $8.22
8. France $8.07
9. Germany $7.86
10. Portugal $7.84
108. United States $3.45
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Note: Canada price at the pump were just under $5 at that time.

Cruisin'
Where gasoline is cheapest
Rank Country Price/gal
1. Venezuela 12 cents
2. Iran 40 cents
3. Saudi Arabia 45 cents
4. Libya 50 cents
5. Swaziland 54 cents
6. Qatar 73 cents
7. Bahrain 81 cents
8. Egypt 89 cents
9. Kuwait 90 cents
10. Seychelles 98 cents
44. United States $3.45
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155 countries surveyed between March 17 and April 1, 2008. Prices not adjusted for cost of living or exchange rates.
Correction: Due to data errors, previous versions of these charts were incorrect. The charts have been updated.
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PS. I really felt that $75 for Montreal-Mont Ste-Anne return. That was one of the major factors WHY I didn't risk going to Sugarloaf (approx 600km return from MTL) without a partner on May 4th and went to Jay (approx 280km return) instead. So yes, it going to affect me if I ski a lot in one season and decision are going to have to be made.
 
Harvey44":3dhzam02 said:
I've got natural gas.
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My flatland place is natural gas. My KMart condo is a buried metered LP tank for the building. I have gas heat, hot water, and stove in both places. My flatland place also has a gas clothes dryer.

I can't imagine having to cook on an electric stove.
 
So yes, it going to affect me if I ski a lot in one season and decision are going to have to be made.
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I suspect gas has deterred Adam from short solo trips to Mammoth since he cleared out April 21. And it's now noticeably cheaper to fly than drive solo from L.A. to SLC. The latter trip is now similar in cost for two, but still worth driving if you're timing the short-term weather forecast.

Perhaps Patrick may choose to reassess his not-so-convenient location to the best skiing in the East :wink: .
 
Tony Crocker":1r0lv5o2 said:
Perhaps Patrick may choose to reassess his not-so-convenient location to the best skiing in the East :wink: .
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I've always agreed that Ottawa wasn't convenient for the best skiing in the East. for me, a 4-6 hour drive, although similar to LA-Mammoth isn't convenient. HOWEVER the close local skiing makes it's a good location and better than Montreal is that aspect.

When I was living in Montreal and didn't have much income, I would do a bunch of solo trip and ski maybe 30 times a year, most of those days were at the top of crop in the East. Local good skiing (comparable to Ottawa) from Montreal was further than Ottawas.

Money issues are always in the back of my mind, although rarely a determining factor. This is probably why I skied so much local this season versus heading to Tremblant or Whiteface more often, it's true that I skied with the girls also. I'm up to 56 days this season without a season pass (I have deals here and there, but not to the extend of having a season pass to one place and always skiing there), but I would lie to say that at the end of THIS season, I didn't start thinking about my wallet. I've never skied so much in one season plus by skiing so much, some equipment needs to be change more often.

As a consequence, I might revert back to being more ski partner dependent in my travels in order to share the cost. :? As I typing this, am considering the Whites this weekend or/and the next if I can manage it (no monetary issues). :roll:
 
Harvey44":ms0qnr12 said:
One thing I have read is that electric motors and AWD go well together. One design I saw had a smaller electric motor driving each wheel. A micro chip controls the slip/grip. It actually weighs less with no trans axle and the ICE (gas motor) is only for producing electricity. Not sure how feasible, but a cool idea. Sorry I couldn't find a link.
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Check it out - very cool from Volvo:

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article. ... rt=hybrids
 
It seems as of late that gas is going to go above the $5 level pretty soon. Perhaps we are seeing peak oil. Rumor has it that the saudi's aren't producing more oil because they don't want to, but because they are running out.
 
An overview analysis about whether we are experiencing "peak oil."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil

In general, those who have predicted imminent resource depletion in the past have been spectacularly wrong. However, there is a quite long list of countries in that article that have already passed peak conventional oil production.

While I'm skeptical of the doomsday scenarios, the past world of cheap conventional oil is likely to replaced by more expensive oil, like tar sands, coal gasification etc. and by alternative energy technologies that become economically viable when oil is $130+ per barrel.

I think an economic-based shift to conservation/renewable energy is much more likely than a coerced shift based upon unvalidated climate change models.
 
Tony Crocker":8x010ify said:
While I'm skeptical of the doomsday scenarios, the past world of cheap conventional oil is likely to replaced by more expensive oil, like tar sands, coal gasification etc. and by alternative energy technologies that become economically viable when oil is $130+ per barrel.

I think an economic-based shift to conservation/renewable energy is much more likely than a coerced shift based upon unvalidated climate change models.
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I agree with Mr. Crocker on this one. I'm always very skeptical about doomsday scenarios. The result of higher energy cost would be a modification of our infrastructure. It might be a painful process involving more expensive food and recession... Eventually the cost of "conventional" energy will reach a point where alternative fuels become viable. Thereafter, the cost of energy will reduce as alternatives become more efficient and better.
 
Harvey44":1alf0wpv said:
I agree with Rob. On the whole this will be a good thing. But unfortunately not all alternatives are progress:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/22/busin ... f=business
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Actually coal is better for the environment than oil. If all cars that ran on oil were replaced with electric cars there would be far less co2 pumped into the air. Where do electric cars get their energy? Coal... In fact, fuel cell cars get their power from coal, in that hydrolysis requires quite a bit of energy.
 
rfarren":2pqtjcf0 said:
Where do electric cars get their energy? Coal... In fact, fuel cell cars get their power from coal, in that hydrolysis requires quite a bit of energy.
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I live 12 miles from a nuke. I'm baffled why the US isn't focusing on nuclear, hydro, tidal, and wind as their sources for electricity.
 
rfarren":1n2nhz2u said:
coal is better for the environment than oil. If all cars that ran on oil were replaced with electric cars there would be far less co2 pumped into the air. Where do electric cars get their energy? Coal... In fact, fuel cell cars get their power from coal, in that hydrolysis requires quite a bit of energy.
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It's my understanding that cars running on electricity are better for the environment that gasoline powered cars regardless of how the electricity is produced.

However of all the ways to produce electricity, coal is the dirtiest. Electricity produced by burning oil is cleaner than that produced by coal. Natural gas is cleaner than oil. All of Geoffs options are better than all of the above.
 
Funny... when I lived in France in the mid-80s, there were nuclear power plants everywhere, and France had a reputation as an "ungreen" country that depended on dangerous sources of energy. Things have changed, I guess.

When the Chernobyl disaster occurred, and the cloud floated over our region, I remember the authorities telling us to carefully rinse all vegetables before eating.
:roll:
 
If carbon is the most important environmental issue (a matter of some debate) France is one of the most green developed countries.
 
Geoff":5stg5lkj said:
I live 12 miles from a nuke. I'm baffled why the US isn't focusing on nuclear, hydro, tidal, and wind as their sources for electricity.
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With peak oil on the horizon, perhaps we will start seeing more of those options. I'm not a huge fan of hydro because it has serious side effects with fish populations and pollution, however, a combination of all of the above could do very well with powering this country.

I once saw on the discovery channel a company that was building turbines that could fit on the top of buildings in which the wind could come from any direction. It required very little maintenance and didn't cause vibrations which could be felt or heard in the building.

As a resident of NYC I've always dreamt that someday every building would have its own solar panels, and wind turbines. I feel every building should be required produce some of its own energy.
 
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